DixieBoard

The ghost of general lee wrote:

Coukd yall please stop talking about some make belive slavery on the RMB? It dosent exactly give out the best of vibes to the rest of nationstates. We are the one true bastion of southern pride and nationhood on this website. We should try and prove to people that were not just a bunch of racists obsessed with slavery.

I don't believe we should force others into riding slavery instantly. I'm not against getting rid of it but it should be up to the nation not law.

However that's just me.

Dixie wrote:

I don't know if any of you caught it, but our WFE was vandalized without warning.

Previously it had paraphrased Gone With the Wind: "There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South. Here in this pretty world, Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and of Slave."

The telegram I received from an unknown moderator failed to explain what was wrong with our WFE or what rule was broken, and simply warned me not to change it back.

I'm looking into it right now: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=488242

They can piss off for all I care, the issues in game talk about slavery, you can become a racist, authoritarian, genocidal slave state very easily with the options they give you. Their top regions have plenty of nations dedicated to Communism and Fascism. Two destructive, genocidal, ideologies who's gulags and concentration camps used more slave labor separately than the south had people both free and enslaved. The fact we got in trouble for using a quote from one of our cultures most significant movies. Even if it mentions the peculiar institution. Just screams bias.

Dixie wrote:

Click to show...

From the followup telegram I received, another mod says they interpreted the reference to "master and slave" as being trolling. The original mod who altered our WFE didn't deign to even explain why (probably acted in a fit of anger), so I'm guessing they alone felt they were being trolled.

I've seen this happen with another nation. A mod didn't like their national motto and so literally vandalized it into nonsense. The nation in question changed it back, reported the incident, but nothing ever came of it.

That said, I have appealed our WFE and been told by moderators that it is being discussed, so I'm guessing the original mod involved is having to convince them why it was "trolling" and needed to be deleted. I'm with you on it, slavery existed and pretending it didn't is pretty dumb. Especially when NationStates literally has slave regions, Nazi regions, Communist regions, etc. Heck, I picked the Stars and Bars for our region flag because I wanted to have a more historical and less political image for us. We all know how the battle flag riles folks up.

If they rule against us, so be it. We'll have a fantasy little Dixie here where we pretend slavery wasn't tied up in how things were.

The mods here are pretty self righteous and have let the power go to there heads. I suppose that's what you get when you rely on volunteers tho. One of them banned my nation Chairmen winnie the flu for "trolling" when I literally never posted with it or even moved it out of its home region. And when I tried to protest that I was told tough $hit. Apparently its "racist" to point out that the virus originated in that authoritarian hell and that there government is probably the ones that created it.

Southern Republic of Dixie wrote:

I follow my region mates into the hell.
If it results in my inevitable death I'll move. I have plans to move to Canada Ottawa to meet a friend there.
If the united States doesn't work out... I'll move from the south and cheer you boys on and the gals who follow with the guns.
Drum along the anthem and bring the south to glory.

I'll never abandon the south not even 16 hours away from it when I move.
May be several years till I do but i will hopefully get out of this.

And I will always be glad to come back to the south when it does succeed.

Have fun in Canada. I've heard great things about that place. Apparently the true north is a whole lot better than the regular north, they have legal weed and affordable healthcare!

I hate trump and bigotry to Latinos and I'm pro-immigrant too. I made cf to try to escape everything I didn't like in history with an alternative history

I've lived in Canada for about 7 years now (in the province of Alberta, and surprisingly there's quite a few southerners living in my area), yet deep inside I know my heart belongs in the South. Once you're born and bred in the South, you can never leave as I believe you take it with you wherever you go!

While I'm normally apathetic to politics, it's disheartening to sit on the sidelines and watch our country fall apart and watch a large number of our population glorify idealism and the downfall of a great nation.

The secessionist states of americana wrote:

I've lived in Canada for about 7 years now (in the province of Alberta, and surprisingly there's quite a few southerners living in my area), yet deep inside I know my heart belongs in the South. Once you're born and bred in the South, you can never leave as I believe you take it with you wherever you go!

While I'm normally apathetic to politics, it's disheartening to sit on the sidelines and watch our country fall apart and watch a large number of our population glorify idealism and the downfall of a great nation.

How hard is it to get into Canada? I've considerd tryin to move up there before but going through the immigration process sounds like a real pain.

Confederate Farmers wrote:

I hate trump and bigotry to Latinos and I'm pro-immigrant too. I made cf to try to escape everything I didn't like in history with an alternative history

I think Trumps been a decent president, I wasent too fond of him at first but I gotta say hes grown on me. The whole "spereate kids from there family's and throw them into some kind of child prison" thing is pretty screwed up tho. All in all I'd say I'm anti immigration, not on racial grounds mind you but because the more people we have in America the less our labor is valued. Taking in low skill Immigrants hurts the American poor while taking in highly skilled immigrants hurts the country that immigrant comes from, as well as makes it harder for any American that has a degree in that particular field to get a job. Instead of opening up the floodgates to more immigration, I think we should invest into our existing population by offering free college tuition and trade schools to every American citizen. Combined with tax exemptions and subsidies to company's involved in the research and development of machines capable of automating tasks currently performed by humans. Immigration is a short term solution with plenty of drawbacks, but education and automation is a good Longterm strategy that would ensure prosperity to both current and future generations.

Confederate Farmers wrote:

Well I’m pro immgrants for A variety of reasons.

1 so our country does not repeat the same mistakes in the past A refugee needs help flight who is a Jew fleeing nazi rule they need somewhere to stay . I also feel that as well the Bible tells us to do is help people who are in need of help. Of course before we think we’re governments to do we have to think what ourselves as individual Christians should do

2 you’re right, labor Value Decline does happen However it’s OK because a lot of the jobs Mexicans Immgrants do natives don’t do such as agriculture grape pickings on a large scale.

These Latinos will do anything they can to put bread on the tableTo feed their families
or in their specific case tortillas.

3 you’re right skills labor such as plumbing electrician working and above all suggest working on light building a deck in hard labor With immigrants it opens the playing option.

Back in Fayetteville if the person you hired wasn’t Hispanic you automatically knew he was useless. They would watch YouTube videos of how to do projects and G I could’ve just done that myself!

I also kind of pens what jobs were talking about.

If you’re looking for home industrial expansion well labor unions hasn’t the thing to do it.
Tariffs generally hurt the economy. globalism is the future might as well embrace that.

4
We don’t have enough people to pay Social Security end because of immigration we currently afloat. If we didn’t have that illegal immigration we wouldn’t have enough people to pay Social Security. https://www.sciencealert.com/earth-s-population-is-destined-to-peak-in-forty-years-before-dropping-and-we-need-to-act

Problem with offering free stuff man as you eventually run out of money.

Some of what you say isn’t enough o sustain our econmy and your proposals Cut increased immigration at the same time.

I will proably be voting for Joe biden https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/trump-distorts-bidens-immigration-plans/

1. We cant save everyone, and we have no obligation to do so. The world is a crappy place and there will always be some kind of war or civil strife making things hard for people somewhere in the world. We should focus on helping them where they are at rather than encouraging them to move here.

2. Immigrants do more jobs than just grape picking. And that is something that could be done either by a machine, or by natives courted with a higher paying salary.

3. Not every hispanic is a good laborer and not every gringo is bad at construction. My dad and older brother were both carpenters and the stuff my dad built was top notch. My older brother isnt as good as dad was but at the shed he built us hasent collapsed yet.

4. Globalism is the future your right, which is why it's a huge problem that the united states dosent manufacture much of anything while college tuition is unaffordable to millions of americans. The chinese are better at making things than us and the Europeans invest more into there citizens education. We need to step up our game in at least one of those areas if we want to remain a relevant and wealthy nation.

5. Your telling me that were the worlds only remaining superpower, home to more millionaires and billionares than any other nation on the planet. And we cant afford to pay for Social Securiy, Medicare for all, or college tuition for our citizens? We have the money for it we just need to start taxing the rich more than what we do.

The ghost of general lee wrote:

1. We cant save everyone, and we have no obligation to do so. The world is a crappy place and there will always be some kind of war or civil strife making things hard for people somewhere in the world. We should focus on helping them where they are at rather than encouraging them to move here.

2. Immigrants do more jobs than just grape picking. And that is something that could be done either by a machine, or by natives courted with a higher paying salary.

3. Not every hispanic is a good laborer and not every gringo is bad at construction. My dad and older brother were both carpenters and the stuff my dad built was top notch. My older brother isnt as good as dad was but at the shed he built us hasent collapsed yet.

4. Globalism is the future your right, which is why it's a huge problem that the united states dosent manufacture much of anything while college tuition is unaffordable to millions of americans. The chinese are better at making things than us and the Europeans invest more into there citizens education. We need to step up our game in at least one of those areas if we want to remain a relevant and wealthy nation.

5. Your telling me that were the worlds only remaining superpower, home to more millionaires and billionares than any other nation on the planet. And we cant afford to pay for Social Securiy, Medicare for all, or college tuition for our citizens? We have the money for it we just need to start taxing the rich more than what we do.

Also Mexicans would be Abel to take those blue-collar jobs depending such as factory making So for you the lower the skill the better. Competition means some people decide not to do that job anymore as well. But if we subtract labor that is completely needed such as agriculture business then we will be in better shape in terms of being stuck with more limited options

We will be able to make those things in America with Cheaper immgration labor and Compation a this all lowers the the products price

http://plasticsoldiers.toys/shop/?fbclid=IwAR2F4cvTlbVhUF1WOhCXgKzrfcCtIeBwz8uy-zqx3CusSKta0x0Jy9l3wQM

But most of all i’ll pay for Toy soldiers from Russia ,because I can’t get a specific style in the United States or elsewhere. Do you recommend any brands of toy soldiers for me

I already do armies in plastic,sunjade ,bmc I haven’t tried AirFX yet and other toy companies you recommend any of them? them

As you can see, they've also removed the video reference to "Gone With the Wind." My requests for transparency were unfortunately denied, so we have no way of actually knowing if a panel reviewed the appeal or if it wasn't just the first biased mod. Here was their response to the appeal:

Your Final Appeal has been considered by a panel of at least three Moderators who were uninvolved in the original ruling and First Appeal, and which includes at least one Senior Game Moderator. The decision has been taken to deny the appeal.

As a corollary to the decision, we have further removed the link to the intro video of Gone with the Wind, and the reference to "cotton fields" from the WFE.

Pertaining to your violation and the counters offered to it, two main points have served as deciding factors in this ruling:

1) "But the issues talk about slavery and bad stuff!" — There is a stark difference between playing out a fictional form of slavery and playing out a real life, relatively recent form of slavery that's effects are still felt in our current society. It is a false equivalence to say that a nation pretending to be, say, Panem from "The Hunger Games" with its Avox slaves is of equal potential offensiveness as a nation pretending to be the antebellum south with its African American slaves. There are no descendants of Avoxes in real life who are still suffering discrimination and grappling with a culture that continues to glorify the people who wronged them. African Americans are not mere characters and their history is not a mere series of plot points in the service of putting on a story for your personal amusement. Difficult historical topics are not off limits here, but as the reactions of real life people who are effected by those topics come first, these topics must be handled with respect for those reactions in mind; it has been determined that this was not the case with your region. We are not going to disservice our African American players by allowing their struggles to be cheapened for the sake of aesthetic and power fantasy.

2) Given that this region is intended as a hub for those invested with real life southern pride, you do not get to play the "it's just RP" card. If this were strictly RP and the players made it clear that their OOC beliefs in no way came close to what they were depicting through writing then we might be more forgiving; but when you start out with unironic Confederate pride and then start glorifying the ills of the Confederacy through your writing, that line between "in character" and "out of character" beliefs has been blurred, and this cannot be ignored lest less savory individuals use RP as a sneaky excuse to genuinely promote and condone heinous acts. Please note, we are well aware that plenty of people use Confederate symbols in what is intended to be a non-racist manner, but this is not an excuse to handle the known racism of the Confederacy with thoughtlessness and insensitivity. Users of all stripes need to be aware of how they come across to the uninitiated outsider whenever they post, and a region full of people who sincerely identify with the Confederate States of America while posting things that bluntly minimize and glorify slavery "just for funzies" is not going to pass that test.

To reiterate, this decision is not a matter of punishing anyone for using a Confederate theme, which we are well-aware can be done with pure intent. But just as Nazi-themed regions are expected to exist without capitalizing on the murder of Jewish people, you too are expected to refrain from capitalizing on American slavery. It is your responsibility to handle sensitive subject matter in a way that does not troll your fellow users by turning interest in historical events into a devaluing/celebration of historic injustice. If you cannot manage to do this — separating "pride in culture" from "pride in atrocity" as many of you would have others believe — then you will lose your privilege of participating in this sort of activity. Thank you.

It's worth noting that their response adds or addresses things that were never said by me. It's about what I expected, however.

For those unfamiliar with the ongoing issues with moderation on NS, please see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=487460

Confederate Farmers wrote:

Click to show...

1 well we are the world leaders as in the world expects us to lead.I understand we shouldn't be involved in every war though I'm exaggerating. We will never be abel to solve all of the world's problems just as we will never solve every problem at home. Often though those international problems are to big and need a broad multinational coalition to help solve those problems before they accumulate and become our problems. Only Congress can legally declare war and America can win a conventional war I'm not sure about a guerrilla war. Those terrorists are crazy we have killed over 75% I think of there army yet they still get new recruits. I am committed to winning the war if it takes a thousand years against the Taliban and their friends who have attacked America. We will never destroy communism ,but we can destroy the terrorist popularity

2 we give out the jobs that are in high demand , but low fill. If you where doing pretty well in the country you where born with there is not many reasons to come here.

3Not every Mexican is meant to be a labor, but all the ones who can run, jump, swim and do cross country are already here unless the border patrol caught them. Maby you brother should do something else for a job. What did he want to do?

4 Yes, America was the industrial giant , but we are a service economy now. if you want a nice,good made in American made item well here you go https://bmctoys.com/

As for trade union schools America needs to popularize them more I agree. traditional College doesn't have to be that answer. My dream is to serve my country in a war and to be one of those historical reenactors at a place like Williamsburg

5/4 well our country The standard of living in the United States is high by the standards that most economists use, and for many decades throughout the 20th century, the United States was recognized as having the highest standard of living in the world.

we already have a high corporate tax so I propose in minimizing it and for revenue loss put it on luxury taxes perhaps and rich people's income taxes including Bernie sanders.

in short with a country with such a High debt deficit cant do either of those things in fact my obnoxious white liberal SJW cousin has no plan what so ever about our deficit. I propose cutting Medicaid, Medicare, social security, and do even more budget cuts. It was done in the past specifically Clinton

if the branches really are not going to be completely directecly involved in fighting our enemies then I might have to cut those military departments.

You make it sound if we just tax the rich everything will be okay when in reality that isn't always the case. When JFK specifically taxed the rich the econmy was bad ,because of capital investment loss. When Kennedy started putting tax breaks the econmy started to improve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1964#:~:text=Kennedy%20proposed%20a%20tax%20cut,unemployment%2C%20and%20increased%20federal%20revenues.

https://www.thebalance.com/president-john-f-kennedy-s-economic-policies-3305560

Europe also has less investment cash per capital though your reason isn't without weight

So in short your saying we need to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social security while increasing the flow of Immigrants to the country? Jesus so your the person fox news was trying to warn us about lol. If you cut programs that help the poor while simultaneously devaluing there labor (while increasing the ammount of poor people.) Then what your going to get is high crime rates and civil unrest. The could very well spiral into a civil war if it goes unchecked. It is our nations duty to look after our worse off citizens and make sure that they can go to the doctor without going bankrupt, and afford to eat and pay there bills if there too old or too disabled to work. And if you dont want people having to live off government assistance forever then you need to support programs that will help people learn the skills they need to be able to compete in a service economy.

Oh my