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Ibenta wrote:Hell, he even went to the Discord and tried to get Furby to curtail my free speech by claiming that I was breaking the RMB rules.

And then you went on the CP discord to say a bunch of nasty things about him where he couldn't see. I think you two are even on the whole going to discord thing - Which, you really should, if you really believe this:

Ibenta wrote:As I see it, talking to either of you is a waste of my time. The two of you are incredibly arrogant--so arrogant that you would attack a concerned constituent.

Ibenta wrote:you wouldn't go behind citizens backs and try to punish them for speaking freely

Again, you two are totally even on the whole going behind each others backs thing - I'd advise against using that in your argument at this point. And are you actually attacking him for just pointing out a possible rule violation to the moderators. But again, if talking to them is a "waste of your time", why did you devote another miniature essay to it?

Ibenta wrote:Clearly, publicly discussing your platform with all its potential flaws, doesn't exactly put your party in the best light, does it? Especially among new members on the RMB.

Platform seems to be the last thing any of you are arguing about.

Now. The rules are very clear on 'excessive harassment' on here, and they've both expressed a desire to either move to a private place or stop. You responded to WP's request to moderation by saying that he's trying to violate your "freedom of speech" and you've responded to New Inglaterra after he requested twice for the conversation to be moved to DMs. I'll reiterate myself one last time - Move to telegrams or discord DMs, please. That goes for WP and New Inglaterra as well equally.

Ibenta wrote:So to repeat myself again, I urged you to change your platform as a means to avoid controversy. I did not say that you had to change your platform. And I did not include my specific thoughts on each part of your platform so as to avoid what would have been a damaging dialogue to your party. Clearly, publicly discussing your platform with all its potential flaws, doesn't exactly put your party in the best light, does it? Especially among new members on the RMB.

But your response to me is instead that I am trying to shut down your party--that Ibenta is trying to destroy another small faction. If that were the case, why would I refrain from publishing my critique of your platform and urge you to change your proposals? Ask Fluvannia and Ulrech. I went to the Conservative Party Discord--I rejoined it--just to show them the first part of my critique. That critique was several paragraphs long and wasn't even my full set of opinions. And now Furby intends to write his own critique of your Party based on my commentary. If I had really wanted to destroy you, I would have published that critique and watch West Phoenicia still try to shut me out of regional politics. I would have attempted to humiliate you with all of my arguments, which I did not. At least recognize that.

I did not intend to destroy your party in this most recent exchange. But your assumption that I did, coupled with West Phoenicia's demeaning messages--stating that the Senate is above its constituents--resulted in this current fight. You brought this upon yourself, and I don't think that the Conservative Party will easily back down from the scent of blood.

As for me, that's all I have to say. Not to repeat myself here again, but I haven't just left regional politics, I've rejected it. I'm sorry that you have such a low opinion of me. May you do well with the NPP.

I have not said that you are seeking to destroy the NPP or humiliate. All I have said is that despite repeatedly saying you have a response to my platform and specific critiques, you never actually say those specific critiques. So please, by all means. I would love to hear this, over Discord or telegram, but not the RMB.

In the words of my grandfather: Either speak up or shut up. Just constantly saying “I disagree” is no debate. Offer up an argument.

And as I have said time and time again, move this to private chats before we get in trouble with Gagium over it.

I will not respond in the RMB anymore in regards to this topic.

New Inglaterra wrote:I have not said that you are seeking to destroy the NPP or humiliate. All I have said is that despite repeatedly saying you have a response to my platform and specific critiques, you never actually say those specific critiques. So please, by all means. I would love to hear this, over Discord or telegram, but not the RMB.

In the words of my grandfather: Either speak up or shut up. Just constantly saying “I disagree” is no debate. Offer up an argument.

No need for the last word, now scram..smacks with broom

Gagium wrote:No need for the last word, now scram..smacks with broom

Uwu. Harder daddy Gagium.

New Inglaterra wrote:Uwu. Harder daddy Gagium.

Gagium: *reluctantly likes*

Gagium wrote:And then you went on the CP discord to say a bunch of nasty things about him where he couldn't see. I think you two are even on the whole going to discord thing - Which, you really should, if you really believe this:

Those "nasty" comments weren't even particularly as bad as you make them out to be. And much of them are grounded by his actions and by other people's agreement. In fact, you've also agreed with various points I've made about West Phoenicia in the past. You don't really have any legitimate right to tell me that I can't express views that you yourself agree with--even if you're not going to admit that publicly.

Gagium wrote:Again, you two are totally even on the whole going behind each others backs thing - I'd advise against using that in your argument at this point. And are you actually attacking him for just pointing out a possible rule violation to the moderators.

See, the difference is that I made jokes about West Phoenicia behind his back. West Phoenicia literally went ahead and tried to silence me on very weak grounds--grounds that you and I both know Furby admitted were baseless. So no. We're not actually equal. Talking smack about other people is not the same as trying to distort the rules to silence an opposition.

Anyways yeah, I'm actually attacking him for his attempt to violate members' freedom of speech. Your phrasing of what he did is an understatement, at best.

Gagium wrote:But again, if talking to them is a "waste of your time", why did you devote another miniature essay to it?Platform seems to be the last thing any of you are arguing about.

How much I write has nothing to do with how much I care about this particular matter. You and I both know I generally write a lot. Additionally, I only wrote that response as a defense of my character. What I wrote was effectively this; I will not waste any more of my time with them but not before I absolve myself of their baseless attacks.

Gagium wrote:Now. The rules are very clear on 'excessive harassment' on here, and they've both expressed a desire to either move to a private place or stop. You responded to WP's request to moderation by saying that he's trying to violate your "freedom of speech" and you've responded to New Inglaterra after he requested twice for the conversation to be moved to DMs. I'll reiterate myself one last time - Move to telegrams or discord DMs, please. That goes for WP and New Inglaterra as well equally.

Literally seconds after you wrote this, New Ingla just submitted what can only be described as an attempt to get the last laugh. That you're trying to accuse me of unilaterally perpetuating this fight is unfair and quite disappointing.

Gagium, I know your personal views about this region. I know how you really view the proliferation of political parties and the nature of Furby's presidency. You've made yourself clear on numerous occasions on Discord. So my only question, then, is what changed? Why is it that you say one thing on the Discord and do something completely different on NS? Why is that you never fight for any of your actual beliefs but idly stand by and try to strike up this notion of "impartial arbiter" when you and I both know that you are far from impartial?

Please explain this to me, Gagium, because right now, I can't help but think that you're not brave enough to actually make yourself and your views known to all or you're just not a sincere person. I hate people who lie, Gagium. There is a right. There is a wrong. But what you're doing right now is not just. It's cowardly.

New Inglaterra wrote:I have not said that you are seeking to destroy the NPP or humiliate.

New Inglaterra wrote:And as far as I think, the NPP’s platform is more pro democracy than anything you’ve ever done. You constantly derided Senators who did not join a major party and dismissed anyone who wanted to express opinions to the contrary of yours as being mere idiots or power hungry mad men.

Well. Isn't that rather contradictory.

From yesterday night on the CP Discord; note that this isn't even everything I see as problematic in the platform, because after a while, even I stopped writing.

I will make this brief, because I have no intention of staying here for long. That platform offered by the National Populist Party is deeply concerning. Multiple proposals in it are inherently undemocratic and even serve to undermine the efficacy of our government.
"The NPP is also in favor of loosening Senator requirements."
One only needs to join the regional Discord to gain residency, become a citizen after two weeks without incident, and join the World Assembly to become a Senator. Hypothetically speaking, with these requirements, any member of the Federation could join the Senate. Lowering these requirements any further would not only turn the Federation into ancient Athens--rule by the corruptible mob--but also undermine our protections against foreign influence in our regional affairs.
"The NPP will also push for a special Senate Region where Senators vote through puppet Senator nations, allowing for a more open voting process among the regional population, rather than the current Discord system."
There is no need to move the Senate away from Discord. Anyone can download that application, and people's unwillingness to join the regional server should not be grounds to move the legislature to NS. No one but the people are restricting themselves from the Senate. But beyond how unnecessary this proposal is, moving our legislative affairs to a medium that is less secure and less functional than Discord is not a smart nor safe decision. And separating the location where the region conducts most of its border security operations from the Senate places undue burden upon the government.
"The NPP will push for a more powerful Senate over the Presidency."
This is already explicitly affirmed by the Federal Constitution; the law clearly states that the Senate is and must always be the most powerful branch of the government. And the President, as of now, does not have the power to act as a tyrant. Our Constitution effectively limits the Executive.
This is probably one of the worst proposals:
"The NPP will also establish a strict term limit on Justices of the Judicial Branch, with a limit on how many consecutive terms a Justice may serve, and removing the restriction on voting Senate members to hold the position of Justice."
The NPP is effectively proposing that the Federation rid itself of an independent and thereby fair judiciary by allowing career politicians from the legislature the right to not only influence, but also join the Court of the State.
"The NPP will implement a stronger and more active regional military. The NPP will create a new "Federal Security Council" of Senate leadership, the Secretary of War, and Chief of Intelligence to advise the President on military matters. The Regional Military will be reorganized, reformed, and rebuilt."
The Senate should not be able to interfere directly in the affairs of the Executive. Though it should pursue and maintain some level of oversight, and the Executive should maintain a level of transparency, allowing the legislature to intervene and potentially divulge classified information necessary for the security of our region is unjustifiable
And to what extent will the military be reorganized? What does that mean? This is what is even more disconerting
"The WA delegate will be directed to vote in accordance with the Senate's direction, and WA members of the FCN can petition the Senate Speaker to hold a WA-only poll on how the Senate is to direct the WA delegate."
Completely unnecessary, and the WA Delegate does not represent the Senate. He represents the Executive and the region.

New Inglaterra wrote:In the words of my grandfather: Either speak up or shut up. Just constantly saying “I disagree” is no debate. Offer up an argument.

Indeed, but of course, I doubt someone like you would actually read anything that I write. Hell, I tried to avoid this.

New Inglaterra wrote:No because he does this all the time. He doesn’t like something, writes a 30 page essay saying he doesn’t like it, and then proceeds to keep saying he doesn’t like it without actually saying why.

Furbish Islands wrote:You can say BiG bAd IbEnTa GoInG oN aNoThEr DrUnKeN rAnT all you want he does have a point, and I agree with him.

Ulrech wrote:Ibenta's "drunken rants" are more thought provocing than most of the stuff in the debate chamber

Looks around
Ah, just another day at the office
Watches for nuke to drop

The Legion of Mankind wrote:Looks around
Ah, just another day at the office
Watches for nuke to drop

Actually accurate tho

Holy Rhinish Islands wrote:Actually accurate tho

Ikr

The Legion of Mankind wrote:Looks around
Ah, just another day at the office
Watches for nuke to drop

I'll drop more than a nuke on your Hiroshima, if you catch my drift.

Ibenta wrote:I'll drop more than a nuke on your Hiroshima, if you catch my drift.

Uhm... Er.....

Ibenta wrote:Well. Isn't that rather contradictory.

From yesterday night on the CP Discord; note that this isn't even everything I see as problematic in the platform, because after a while, even I stopped writing.

I will make this brief, because I have no intention of staying here for long. That platform offered by the National Populist Party is deeply concerning. Multiple proposals in it are inherently undemocratic and even serve to undermine the efficacy of our government.
"The NPP is also in favor of loosening Senator requirements."
One only needs to join the regional Discord to gain residency, become a citizen after two weeks without incident, and join the World Assembly to become a Senator. Hypothetically speaking, with these requirements, any member of the Federation could join the Senate. Lowering these requirements any further would not only turn the Federation into ancient Athens--rule by the corruptible mob--but also undermine our protections against foreign influence in our regional affairs.
"The NPP will also push for a special Senate Region where Senators vote through puppet Senator nations, allowing for a more open voting process among the regional population, rather than the current Discord system."
There is no need to move the Senate away from Discord. Anyone can download that application, and people's unwillingness to join the regional server should not be grounds to move the legislature to NS. No one but the people are restricting themselves from the Senate. But beyond how unnecessary this proposal is, moving our legislative affairs to a medium that is less secure and less functional than Discord is not a smart nor safe decision. And separating the location where the region conducts most of its border security operations from the Senate places undue burden upon the government.
"The NPP will push for a more powerful Senate over the Presidency."
This is already explicitly affirmed by the Federal Constitution; the law clearly states that the Senate is and must always be the most powerful branch of the government. And the President, as of now, does not have the power to act as a tyrant. Our Constitution effectively limits the Executive.
This is probably one of the worst proposals:
"The NPP will also establish a strict term limit on Justices of the Judicial Branch, with a limit on how many consecutive terms a Justice may serve, and removing the restriction on voting Senate members to hold the position of Justice."
The NPP is effectively proposing that the Federation rid itself of an independent and thereby fair judiciary by allowing career politicians from the legislature the right to not only influence, but also join the Court of the State.
"The NPP will implement a stronger and more active regional military. The NPP will create a new "Federal Security Council" of Senate leadership, the Secretary of War, and Chief of Intelligence to advise the President on military matters. The Regional Military will be reorganized, reformed, and rebuilt."
The Senate should not be able to interfere directly in the affairs of the Executive. Though it should pursue and maintain some level of oversight, and the Executive should maintain a level of transparency, allowing the legislature to intervene and potentially divulge classified information necessary for the security of our region is unjustifiable
And to what extent will the military be reorganized? What does that mean? This is what is even more disconerting
"The WA delegate will be directed to vote in accordance with the Senate's direction, and WA members of the FCN can petition the Senate Speaker to hold a WA-only poll on how the Senate is to direct the WA delegate."
Completely unnecessary, and the WA Delegate does not represent the Senate. He represents the Executive and the region.

Indeed, but of course, I doubt someone like you would actually read anything that I write. Hell, I tried to avoid this.

I shall telegram you my response later tonight, after I have finished my irl obligations. And haven’t you told him multiple times to get off the RMB Gagium

Ibenta wrote:You don't really have any legitimate right to tell me that I can't express views that you yourself agree with

I have every right to enforce the RMB Rules and Regulations Act, and every right to enforce our region's rules which time after time you've forsaken, warn after warn and mute after mute. There's plenty of ways to get across your points - Or rather, your 'views' - Without breaking these rules. And I've been rather lenient with the two 'requests' for you to proceed to telegrams after the complaint from West Phoenicia. They've made it clear that they don't want to engage with you on here any longer, even if New Inglaterra couldn't hold to that and wanted to get the last word in.

Ibenta wrote:And much of them are grounded by his actions and by other people's agreement.

There's no need to try to justify your behavior.

Ibenta wrote:That you're trying to accuse me of unilaterally perpetuating this fight is unfair and quite disappointing.

If you think I'm enforcing the rules unfairly, feel free to appeal to any of the other officers.

Ibenta wrote:You've made yourself clear on numerous occasions on Discord

There's some things I haven't made clear enough, judging by your 10 warns and 9 mutes on your previous discord account for rule violations - And that doesn't include your previous one before that. i think we'll need that to change in the near future..

Ibenta wrote:I can't help but think that you're not brave enough to actually make yourself and your views known to all or you're just not a sincere person.[/spoiler]

There's plenty of things I don't need to be outspoken on, if that's what you're trying to get at. Could you explain yourself more on this?

Ibenta wrote:I hate people who lie, Gagium.

Ibenta, that's everyone, I believe. That involves you, too - Do you expect me to believe that what you said about West Phoenicia were 'jokes'? Hardly so - Few people joke by claiming that they're a "tryrant in the making" and then proceeding to call them an idiot whose pride is the size of an *ss.

I do appreciate feedback, however, and I'm glad you contested my post - I wasn't expecting anything short of it. Now, I don't appreciate your gander at continuing the argument with New Inglaterra after he made numerous requests and messages indicating that he'd prefer for it to take place in DMs, and after my little 'requests' for you to move elsewhere. It was wholly unnecessary to quote 5-something of his posts after these requests were made.

Okay, Okasian. You've somehow managed to have been warned a total of 34 times on discord, with 20 mutes and 3 instances that resulted in you having been kicked. You seem to have no regard for our rules - As thus, you'll once again make moderation history by being the first person to have been ejected for these rules. Section II of the RMB Rules and Regulations Act may shine a bit more light on this -

II. Allows for anyone appointed as an officer on the region’s page to warn people for breach of these rules, and allows anyone with border control authority to banject or eject people for excessive or repeated breach of these rules, or in cases where the individual has made clear that they do not respect our region’s rules or institutions numerous times in the past.

Please note that this is purely for your continued quite-frankly harassment of New Inglaterra on here, combined with the fact that your very extensive history shows that you indeed care little for any rules we make.

New Inglaterra wrote:I shall telegram you my response later tonight, after I have finished my irl obligations. And haven’t you told him multiple times to get off the RMB Gagium

I've told you that numerous times as well. There's little need to quote him to tell him that you'll be responding to him later on a different platform.

Gagium wrote:I've told you that numerous times as well. There's little need to quote him to tell him that you'll be responding to him later on a different platform.

Yes, my apologies. I shall not respond any longer to him.

Hey hey, what did I miss?

Otira wrote:Hey hey, what did I miss?

Okasian got kicked out after violating more than a few rules and being a tad insulting to Gagium, West Phoenicia, and myself

New Inglaterra wrote:Okasian got kicked out after violating more than a few rules and being a tad insulting to Gagium, West Phoenicia, and myself

I suppose it's a shame. Never good to see things escalate so much.

Otira wrote:I suppose it's a shame. Never good to see things escalate so much.

Personally, I think he needed a vibe check and he failed this one.

We should rename "banning" to "vibe checking"

New Inglaterra wrote:Personally, I think he needed a vibe check and he failed this one.

We should rename "banning" to "vibe checking"

You all needed a vibe check :p

Damn I need to answer my issues again

How are we all? What I'm trying to say is.... we vibing?

The Legion of Mankind wrote:Looks around
Ah, just another day at the office
Watches for nuke to drop

Sir I am part of a allience agenst communists. I expect that daily!

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