by Max Barry

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«12. . .2,0912,0922,0932,0942,0952,0962,097. . .2,6342,635»

Nicholas and Great Britain wrote:Hi

Hello, nice of you to visit!

The Cypher Nine wrote:Hello, nice of you to visit!

thanks

Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Middle Barael, and Nation of ecologists

Middle Barael wrote:Happy Earth Day Everyone!

I haven't posted yet because I've actually been working all afternoon and evening on a presentation I'm making for school about Climate Change. But anyways hopefully you've all had a pleasant Earth Day, and even if you haven't gotten to do anything environmentally-themed today, you still have the next 9 years to try to make a difference, 'til 2030.

Why not we encourage everyone to make bonsai? (It's compact and very profitable tree)

Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Palos heights, Hoochlandia, and 4 othersOuter Bele Levy Epies, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and Garbelia

Palos heights wrote:

I was the former target of worship for the secret Forest chest hair caucus. I can say this and not be assassinated because, as their golden cow idol, they won't kill me, but they do exist. Aside from that, I wrote an issue about fish once that was mostly WoW references, and I dabbled here and there in local government.

The man, the myth, the legend......he has returned. And our day is brighter because of it. The Germans that tried to strike a balance between functionality, formality and familiarity would probably address you as "Der ehmahlige und sehr beliebte Waldbewahrer"........

Welcome back!!!

Chan island, Mount Seymour, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, and 10 othersLord Dominator, Palos heights, Hoochlandia, Outer Bele Levy Epies, Terrabod, Simbolon, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, Garbelia, and Difinbelk

East skirsburg

hello, everyone I am new here! I would like to just greet myself for potential new friends and I am interested in a spot in the regional map

Effazio, Mount Seymour, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, and 10 othersLord Dominator, Hoochlandia, Outer Bele Levy Epies, Terrabod, Simbolon, The Teeth, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, Garbelia, and Arklanda

East skirsburg wrote:hello, everyone I am new here! I would like to just greet myself for potential new friends and I am interested in a spot in the regional map

Hello and welcome! Take a moment and tell us about yourself!

We are currently investigating resources for the regional map so it may be awhile before we can take on new requests. But rest assured the local government is working on it.

Daarwyrth, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, and 8 othersOuter Bele Levy Epies, Terrabod, Simbolon, The Teeth, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, East skirsburg, and Garbelia

East skirsburg

Well, I am not that new to Nationstates but I have been interested in a region like this one that is pretty active since I have been in other ones where it was just dead
My favorite color is Black and Blue
My nation is based on Scandinavian ones
My favorite subject is history
And honestly I am just excited to be here and I hope I have a good time here :)

Effazio, Verdant Haven, Chan island, Daarwyrth, and 12 othersAtsvea, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, Hoochlandia, The Cypher Nine, Outer Bele Levy Epies, Terrabod, New ladavia, The Teeth, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and Garbelia

Palos heights wrote:I was the former target of worship for the secret Forest chest hair caucus. I can say this and not be assassinated because, as their golden cow idol, they won't kill me, but they do exist. Aside from that, I wrote an issue about fish once that was mostly WoW references, and I dabbled here and there in local government.

The most serene republicans, it's worth mentioning that when Palos says they "dabbled here and there in local government," that refers to the fact that they were once our Forest Keeper. Palos served as FK from Sept. 2017 to May 2018, winning the highest percentage of the vote on record (88%), and led Forest's 4th cabinet.

I got a National religion

Chan island, Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Outer Bele Levy Epies, and 3 othersMiddle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and Garbelia

Dark kreston wrote:I got a National religion

*Chan Island squirmed. Man, he remembered when he first got a national religion, and you'd best believe it was more years ago than he was entirely happy contemplating.*

The most serene republicans

Verdant Haven wrote:The most serene republicans, it's worth mentioning that when Palos says they "dabbled here and there in local government," that refers to the fact that they were once our Forest Keeper. Palos served as FK from Sept. 2017 to May 2018, winning the highest percentage of the vote on record (88%), and led Forest's 4th cabinet.

Ah, so not only a man of culture but also a politician and a celebrity!

East skirsburg wrote:My favorite color is Black and Blue

It's always nice to meet someone of a black-white-blue flag gang. Hello there and welcome!

Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, Outer Bele Levy Epies, and 8 othersTerrabod, Apabeossie, Libertandonien, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, Garbelia, Arklanda, and Difinbelk

Important update regarding the 2021 Women's GreenCup.

page=dispatch/id=1536730

How does Forest feel about Wild Animal Suffering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_animal_suffering)

Shalotte, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, and 5 othersTerrabod, Simbolon, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and Garbelia

The Cypher Nine wrote:How does Forest feel about Wild Animal Suffering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_animal_suffering)

I agree with the hubris idea laid out. We can intervene in some situations lie natural disasters, disease, reducing extinction, etc, things where saving the animal can bring about more good than harm, but large scale intervention into wild animal suffering does not seem practical nor really possible, especially if we're talkign predation. I'd also be concerned over what human intervention would do in situations like with predation, something that is essential for many animals to not starve to death.

Atsvea, Ruinenlust, New latin locality, Lord Dominator, and 6 othersUan aa Boa, Terrabod, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, East skirsburg, and Garbelia

New latin locality

The Cypher Nine wrote:How does Forest feel about Wild Animal Suffering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_animal_suffering)

I think Loxim said it well. I do not really see how any large scale, continuously sustained effort to this end would be possible without enormous inputs of energy/resources and/or human labor. Further, even if it could be done I fear the ultimate result - if successful - would likely be the replacement of any remaining resilient, wild ecosystems with fragile imitations, largely dependent on active human intervention to prevent their long-term collapse (and eventual re-wilding I suppose). It is hardly unreasonable to envision that we would get stuck in a loop where we are constantly having to fix problems caused by our previous "fixes".

That being said, I have not looked in to the topic at length, and I think we should show suffering wild animals kindness if we come across them.

The Cypher Nine wrote:How does Forest feel about Wild Animal Suffering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_animal_suffering)

This is not something that I have been aware of before, and I suppose I'd always assumed let nature do nature. These are my initial thoughts! However, given the amount of suffering that is caused directly and indirectly because of humans, and due to our capacity to impact these issues, I think we do need to carefully consider what our response would be.

A first priority would probably be undoing the harm that we have caused. This could include a whole range of initiatives including rewilding, clearing up the world's water (netting and plastic etc), and reducing our intake of meat. It will have to include extending natural habitats, and supporting wild populations and ecosystems. I do think that humans can play in a role in supporting and caring for the world's wild animals subtly without making the world a giant safari park. It is important that animals can live unimpeded by us, but we should monitor and perhaps help provide sustenance to animals given our damage to the environment and their living conditions.

That kinda leads me to a moral argument that I think could be made. In a sense we are stewards of the planet, and we have a duty to preserve the life on it. Personally, I think we have a duty to reduce suffering in our fellow humans wherever we find it, and I see no reason why this shouldn't be applied to non-human animals too.

Atsvea, Ruinenlust, New latin locality, Lord Dominator, and 4 othersUan aa Boa, The void territories, Middle Barael, and Garbelia

The Cypher Nine wrote:How does Forest feel about Wild Animal Suffering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_animal_suffering)

To me, the suffering of wild animals is something that shows us two things:

1. That's "the way it is," in nature. The vast majority of squirrels must die within the first two years of life, no matter how cute they are. The carnivores need to eat, otherwise the herbivores will strip the vegetation and die off themselves. There are precious few cures for illness, almost none for injury, and the winters or dry seasons are harsh. As you move on to smaller, less relatable species, think of the staggering, continuous dying of insects at the hands of each other, the environment, and virtually everything else. Think of the 99.999% of acorns that will never become acorn-bearing oaks themselves. Think of the millions of seeds that die, etc. For microscopic things, it's vast and stupidly innumerable. It cuts deeper when it's a charismatic mammal, or a rare species, or the minuscule sliver of things that we personally come across in our own lives, but it's a tiny fragment off the tip of a massive iceberg, and that's how it's always been, how it is now, and how it will always be, unless the Earth is someday reduced to a desert wasteland with no life to die off in the first place. The alternative to a forest, grassland, or coral reef where there is a constant, high rate of suffering and death on the part of the constituent species is a parking lot or an ice sheet, I would say.

2. The second thing, which is somewhat happier, is that we don't have to do the same thing, as humans. We don't have to exist in that state, and thanks to human social structure, and especially thanks to the civilization of the past century, the overall rates of suffering and death have decreased more than in all of human history prior to that, probably. This is not to say that humans don't suffer, but our problems most often come from our own deficiencies in behavior, organization, and values, not because we are rabbits trying to survive the winter in the taiga. Think of humanity at its best, where our "problems" involve things like jobs, income, self-actualization, psychological problems, etc. In a way, this makes the interpersonal abuse, famines, inequalities, wars, genocides, and environmental degradation all the more needless and stupid, because we are the best positioned out of all forms of life on Earth to buck the trend of pervasive, constant suffering and death that rapidly takes the lives of the vast, vast majority of virtually every other species before the individuals even get a chance to properly live.

[And I'm also lumping into the "human" category our pet animals and domesticated animals. They can (and to some extent do, especially with the "pet" category) have much better individual lives, more similar to honorary humans than to wild animals. Yet tragically, the gratuitous and unnecessary hell that humans often create for themselves and for each other is extended to domesticated animals, especially those in the "livestock" category.]

But all things considered, humans are the one species that really breaks the mold, thanks to our brains and therefore to our civilization. Imagine being part of 99.9999% which dies often and generally suffers, as opposed to being part of the 0.0001% who gets to read the Wikipedia article about how everything else has such a bad time, and being pissed off because the half of the weekend is over in a flash because we were lolling about in bed with our iPhones, listening to sh!tty pop music. Things ain't so bad. :-)

Atsvea, New latin locality, Lord Dominator, Uan aa Boa, and 4 othersTerrabod, Middle Barael, Arklanda, and Difinbelk

The Cypher Nine wrote:How does Forest feel about Wild Animal Suffering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_animal_suffering)

THE ISLANDER
English edition
174 Sahaéne, 1911 vD

PUFFIN SEASON is upon Shalotte again. After a particularly difficult winter, during which nearly all stocks of animal fat and puffin meat in the country ran dry, welcome relief came in the form of our black-and-white friends, who descended upon the islands by the hundreds of thousands.

Towards the end of 1910 vD, Her Faithful Grace's Gaeltyn declared a national state of emergency, as there were insufficient stocks of meat, eggs, and animal fats to supply the nation in the long-term. After the decline in nesting pairs the prior year, it was feared that it could take several years for Shalotte - a region of the world fed primarily by sea birds, where few crops can grow - to recover.

But as of today, the Royal Isles are "drowning in game", according to one fowler.

"There are more birds than we can catch," said Faedawn of Rowling, a professional fowler from Ithmae. "Prior year, we had nought to sell but lots of customers asking for it. This year, opposite problem. And it's only 173rd."

Shalottes across the isles are buying up as much stock as they can, fearing a repeat of the shortage that led to so many families struggling the previous year.

But fowlers don't expect there to be a shortage any time soon.

"It's been years since we seen this many prey," Faedawn told The Islander. "Shalottes rely on our sea birds. They starve when there ain't any, but they feast when there's a lot.

"There's going to be a feast this year."

The Cypher Nine wrote:How does Forest feel about Wild Animal Suffering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_animal_suffering)

If humans caused the problem, issue, or "suffering" in question, than I would encourage that humans interject themselves to resolve that situation and prevent its recurrence. If, however, humans had no part in creation of the issue, then we should not interject ourselves to end it - nature will do what it will, and we are utterly incapable of comprehending all the effects that will arise from our actions. Disrupting natural processes almost inevitably leads to bad results, even if we think we're "doing good" by it. Thinking we can "fix nature" to make it "better" than it is without us is absolute and unabashed hubris.

For example, let's say you feel bad for an herbivorous species, because they're getting eaten by predators. If you then hunt or drive away the predator, now the species grows unchecked. They overgraze the foliage, which eliminates the shelter for a different species, which is symbiotic with a third species, which is the pollinator for a local plant. It doesn't stop there though - the ecosystem rarely deals in dead-ends. The roots of that plant aerated the soil, allowing rain to be absorbed safely down to the water table. Without that plant, the ground is less absorbent, and the rains now flood downhill instead, sweeping away the topsoil and destroying the plant life that used to grow there, and all the species dependent on it. This floodwater than chokes the local stream with muddy runoff, silting it in and reducing the oxygen content, wiping out the fish. Without the fish, now the aquatic birds are going hungry and must move away, meaning no nests. With no nests there are no eggs, which cascades to impact the ovivores...

Evolution reflects a particular balance, and that balance is where the world's current inhabitants, ourselves included, developed. There are natural changes in balance over time, but nothing resembling the speed and scale humanity can achieve or inflict. Disruption of that balance (deliberately or not) is bad for everything that depends on it. If you're standing on a scale, and put a weight on one side, it doesn't matter whether that weight is labeled "good intentions" or "evil schemes" - it screws it all up just as badly. Only removing the excess weights can help restore things to some semblance of what they were.

Just a curious question — what type of city/town/village would you like to live in? Urban, suburban, rural?

Personally, I’m not a fan of any of those. I guess I’d prefer the kind of European-style urban design, where all the homes are concentrated towards the town center, touching each other, with the first floors of the homes being used for businesses and shops, large plazas to hang out in, parks galore, perfect for biking or walking around, a communal sort of atmosphere, village-like and quaint but also hip and cosmopolitan.

Living in an urban city may be cool as a younger adult, but I wouldn’t want to raise kids there or settle down there. Rural areas may be beautiful and charming, but there’s not much to do, and I don’t want to be a farmer. Suburban areas seem nice and perfect, until you realize that it’s just an endless, cookie cutter, McMansion, sprawling mass of Suburbia, the towns slowly growing bankrupt and ruining the environment.

Sadly in the US, the type of European-style communal town/city is not common. I know those are more common in places in Northern and Southern Europe, like in the Netherlands or Germany or or Denmark or Italy or Spain. I just wish these types of old, charming, cities and towns were more widespread.

Shalotte, Einswenn, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, and 8 othersLord Dominator, Uan aa Boa, Hoochlandia, Cat-herders united, East skirsburg, Garbelia, Arklanda, and Difinbelk

East skirsburg

I guess me and Middle Barael have the same likes since I would want a European style, urban design as well and its pretty peaceful

Middle Barael wrote:Just a curious question — what type of city/town/village would you like to live in? Urban, suburban, rural?

Personally, I’m not a fan of any of those. I guess I’d prefer the kind of European-style urban design, where all the homes are concentrated towards the town center, touching each other, with the first floors of the homes being used for businesses and shops, large plazas to hang out in, parks galore, perfect for biking or walking around, a communal sort of atmosphere, village-like and quaint but also hip and cosmopolitan.

Living in an urban city may be cool as a younger adult, but I wouldn’t want to raise kids there or settle down there. Rural areas may be beautiful and charming, but there’s not much to do, and I don’t want to be a farmer. Suburban areas seem nice and perfect, until you realize that it’s just an endless, cookie cutter, McMansion, sprawling mass of Suburbia, the towns slowly growing bankrupt and ruining the environment.

Sadly in the US, the type of European-style communal town/city is not common. I know those are more common in places in Northern and Southern Europe, like in the Netherlands or Germany or or Denmark or Italy or Spain. I just wish these types of old, charming, cities and towns were more widespread.

It sounds like you want to live in Hodnet.

Shalotte wrote:It sounds like you want to live in Hodnet.

Yes I suppose, though the UK still seems a bit too suburban in general, and I'd probably want to live in or closer to a bigger (but still this type of urban design) city. So maybe like Amsterdam or Copenhagen or Hamburg, or maybe in Spain or Italy.

Only problem is I only speak English and Hebrew, though to be fair at this point most people there speak English anyways

Shalotte, Alcantaria, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, and 2 othersLord Dominator, and The most serene republicans

East skirsburg

You should look up images of Lake Bled Slovenia, it's beautiful

Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, and The most serene republicans

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