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The copper states wrote:IN REGARDS TO THE MUSIC:

Very weirdly, video game music. It seems to be some of the most elegant out there. Long-time favorites include Sweden by C418 (More oftenly known as Minecraft's main theme) and literally everything in Battleheart.

Video game music can be quite epic. My favourites are the soundtrack from Total Annihilation, Rome: Total War and Civilization.

Aigania, Treadwellia, and Loftegen 2

Njarofell

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I've played nationstates and I ended up here. What kind of stuff can I do in this region?

Treadwellia, Your Imaginary Friend, Guiness Freaks, Loftegen 2, and 1 otherThe copper states

The last days of my latest poll vote today!

page=poll/p=145951

^ Its legit.

Treadwellia and Loftegen 2

Morpegoe wrote:1) You err gravely here, namely by the petitio principii fallacy.

[Bold statement for a Monotheistic apologist using the Prime Mover argument]

You seek the conclusion that physical, instrumental causes are the sole causes of effects--to the exclusion of a Prime Mover , yet you argue as your first premise that all effects are the products of one of such instrumental causes.

[Nope, not even close. You see you suffer from epistemological closure. You are seeking an equivalent to a monotheistic cause of all of a God in a secular worldview. Did you really expect that I will answer something like the Big Bang as the origin of the Universe and hence the equivalent?

No. You see, you have a limited worldview. Simplifying there are several meta frames of reference.

Monotheistic: an only God (or cause) responsible for all things. Religious or Secular versions.
Polytheistic: different agents with different agendas, in competition or cooperation. Both versions.
Philosophical: a set of impersonal rules (no agent) that govern existence.

You are assuming that I am following a secular version of a monotheistic/mono causal worldview, a mirrored version of yourself. Alas it is not.

You have proven nothing, but only reiterated the conclusion that you fancy.

[No. Science is descriptive. I only describe the ultimate (as our present understanding) of the ultimate elements that form the existence.

You must answer this question: what part of the interaction between space-time and quantum fields, etc, precludes the possibility that these causes are not contingent upon a cause that is still prior to it?

[Because we have not proof? We haven't found anything more fundamental or that be a cause before. It we find something like that (branes, strings or something like that it will be incorporated). We are not epistemological closed].

2) I suppose that your scribe has erred in recording your dictation onto this manuscript, and that you meant to say "There cannot be a first cause alone to predetermine everything at the end."

[Probably. I am usually in a hurry and not writing in my native language]

Your argument is yet again inadequate. [Which one? As far as I recall I was describing]

The Philosopher has stated in the first of the Metaphysics that the most intelligible thing in itself is the least intelligible to the human mind.

[And? it is a complicated way of describing how the thought process that we deemed easy are being quite complex to implement in a computing system, but those deemed complex are relativity easy to implement.

You have merely pointed out that the workings of cosmological determinacy cannot be grasped by the human mind, and not that it cannot exist.

[No. They are fundamental limits for a cognitive system. Of course cognitive systems can be improved. In fact AIs systems currently are reaching conclusions based on unknown basis. There have been able to train an AI system to determine if a picture of a retina is from a man or a woman. But the researchers don't know how the system reached that conclusion.

On the other hand, some lifeforms sans nerve system are capable of feats of computing. For example after decades of planning by hundreds of engineers the Tokyo railway system to be optimal, the resulting grid was simulated as optimal using the growth of a fungus with the stations as a food that the organism has to reach to eat]

3)Please clarify this statement. [¿?]

4) You have spoken well in arguing that we cannot assign simplistic moral values to order and chaos while considering the effects that flow from each.

[thank you for your honesty]

God instrumentalizes the latter to achieve an order that is inscrutable in the present situation.

[That's ascribe intentionally and agency as the working of the world ... and assume only a monotheistic god. Why no a pantheon (Greek, Egyptian?), or a principle (Tao, Karma, ...) if we are in the supernatural mindset?

Your example of life is a prime example, the apparent chaos described thence is only desirable insofar as it is a part of an the ordered equilibrium that is the living being.

[It is not desired, it is given. It seems that life may be a consequence of entropy]
https://www.quantamagazine.org/first-support-for-a-physics-theory-of-life-20170726/
(links for articles, but paywalls. The abstracts are available)

I challenge you to name one instance in which chaos is desired for its own sake--you cannot.

[I am afraid that chaos is currently use in engineering.]
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050912000129

Besides, if you have to use some statistical tools you need random numbers. In fact one time pad, a very secure encryption system relies on the use of random numbers.

Or combinatorial chemistry. Or the Monte Carlo method for computer algorithms. Chaos and randomness are quite needed.

If you suppose that adherence to science and rationality is moral

[No. Science is a form to discover knowledge and rationality is a tool used for it. Science don't require adherence, it doesn't work like that. Science is a form of view the world, a form to inquire and get answers.
Of course it needs a set of values (moral) to work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mertonian_norms#Four_Mertonian_norms

What rationality and science can do is using the best available information at a time suggest what to do. Given a input of what it is the desired outcome.

At most it can be said that the intrinsic values needed to do or understand science bent people towards utilitarian ethical outlooks, but it is independent of science itself.

and that belief in witchcraft and superstition is immoral,

[that's the question. Science can not answer if it is moral or not. What it can say it is that they are simply incorrect]

you are assigning intrinsic moral value to the order

[I think I may have cleared that]

-the adaequatio rei et intellectus that undergirds the former, and spurning the pagan intuition of a abysmally melancholic world ruled by conflicting, unseen, and fundamentally chaotic forces.

[I am disregarding because we don't have proofs]

Why not a pantheon? Why not another supreme God? Because the Lord Jesus Christ has revealed to me the truth with regard to this matter with an assurance more certain than my intuition that the external world exists.

[There are billions of believers that will be assured the contrary. Even between Christians. We demand proofs.]

By the same token you ask me to discard my certainty in the existence and nature of God, I can ask you to discard that nebulous feeling of certainty that holds you back from solipsism.

[No. Even more it is not evident that God exist otherwise there wouldn't be all the scholarly theological work trying to proof it existence like Thomas Aquinas that you quoted.

Neither nebulous; the main and egotistical argument pro science it simply that it works. Certainty? Yes because we have tested, but, we are not closed. We don't have a faith, we have theories, descriptive frameworks and we actively try to smash them, test them to destruction. We don't hold them in a throne. We put them to test after test, to perfect them, and if they are mistaken, we discard and look for others.
The solipsism accusation is comically wrong. Yes, because science needs:
a) Constant interaction with reality
b) It is a communal exercise
c) "Information wants to be free" is the antithesis of secrets. It needs the flow of information between different agents. So it is contrary to solipsism.
]

Also, there have been millions of words written in support of other lines of argument, and there is not enough room to review all of them here.

[For any matter, it is true]

I see that you are quite novice to the field of biblical exegesis.

[I am afraid is a field a bit far from my interests currently]

That verse can be read in an infinite amount of ways

[As every text. Particularly religious ones]

, but the tradition of orthodoxy--St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory IX, Pope Boniface VIII--

[The opinion of the Roman Catholic Church only]

has revealed to us the correct interpretation--and it is certainly contrary to yours.

[Surely. I was going for a polite and quick way of presenting the separation of religious and secular worlds, by citing the Bible. It was neater that going full 2 magisteria by Gould or going full Dawkins. Or simply reviewing the last two millenia of back and forth between secular and religious authorities. Do you really want to go back to the Guelphs and Ghibellines?

Loftegen 2

Njarofell wrote:Hello everyone, it's been a while since I've played nationstates and I ended up here. What kind of stuff can I do in this region?

Welcome back to NS! :)

Right now a lot of things are open to you such as roleplaying as your nation or individuals from your nation with others here on the RMB (consider joining our map if you're interested), helping build up our defensive WA force by joining the Tuesday Tarting Squad or doodling around with the currently in progress art event. ^-^

Additionally if you join our forums and become a shareholder, many different government areas will be open to you such as serving as a diplomat to other regions, as an paralegal in our military or an organizer right here in the region. :)

I'd also suggest you join our Discord server where a lot of us hang out and chat together if you'd like to get more involved in the community! Here's an invite link: https://discord.gg/PFcUtRy

Hope this sounds interesting, we're glad you're here dude!

Edit: Omg that's a long post Aigania! =P

Treadwellia, Njarofell, and Guiness Freaks

The copper states

Njarofell wrote:Hello everyone, it's been a while since I've played nationstates and I ended up here. What kind of stuff can I do in this region?

Boy, how much time do you have?

Lazarus is one of those RP-heavy regions where each nation has its own unique identity. Me and Aigania are mad scientists bent on building a scientocratic utopia (I'm more on the mad side than Aigania, really), Treadwellia is an Obestocracy (rule of the plumpest), Adelsin, Sneyland and Android sneyland are moose farmers, Leonism and Loftegen 2 are alternate germanies (extremely simplified, their backstories are much more nuanced), and many more!

The best thing you can do is establish a personality, engage with everyone else, and just have some fun while making snarky political commentary!

Aigania, Treadwellia, Your Imaginary Friend, Njarofell, and 2 othersLoftegen 2, and Leonism

Njarofell wrote:Hello everyone, it's been a while since I've played nationstates and I ended up here. What kind of stuff can I do in this region?

All kinds! Imaginary Friend, above, gives great ideas. Check 'em out!

Njarofell and Guiness Freaks

The copper states wrote:Treadwellia is an Obestocracy (rule of the plumpest)

Is "obesotocracy" a word?

Tubbius the Rotund likes this word!

The copper states wrote:Boy, how much time do you have?

Lazarus is one of those RP-heavy regions where each nation has its own unique identity. Me and Aigania are mad scientists bent on building a scientocratic utopia (I'm more on the mad side than Aigania, really), Treadwellia is an Obestocracy (rule of the plumpest), Adelsin, Sneyland and Android sneyland are moose farmers, Leonism and Loftegen 2 are alternate germanies (extremely simplified, their backstories are much more nuanced), and many more!

The best thing you can do is establish a personality, engage with everyone else, and just have some fun while making snarky political commentary!

People in Imaginary think your nation totally sucks TCS!!

...am I snarky enough? =P Gah I will someday be good at RP I promise but not today perhaps.

Your Imaginary Friend wrote:People in Imaginary think your nation totally sucks TCS!!

...am I snarky enough? =P Gah I will someday be good at RP I promise but not today perhaps.

Tubbius wags a pudgy pointer with a paternal, breathless oink of an mmph.

The copper states

Treadwellia wrote:Is "obesotocracy" a word?

Tubbius the Rotund likes this word!

Well, do you want it to be? I just made it up on the spot from the roots "obese" and "cracy", but that's how new words get invented I guess

The copper states wrote:Boy, how much time do you have?

Lazarus is one of those RP-heavy regions where each nation has its own unique identity. Me and Aigania are mad scientists bent on building a scientocratic utopia (I'm more on the mad side than Aigania, really), Treadwellia is an Obestocracy (rule of the plumpest), Adelsin, Sneyland and Android sneyland are moose farmers, Leonism and Loftegen 2 are alternate germanies (extremely simplified, their backstories are much more nuanced), and many more!

The best thing you can do is establish a personality, engage with everyone else, and just have some fun while making snarky political commentary!

Leonism could certainly be called an "alternative Germany" (more advanced, more militaristic, more isolationist, less religious, less politically correct) but I always thought of Loftegen 2 as an "alternative US" (perhaps with significant German ancestry...which, lest we forget, the real USA also has). It is more individualist than any Germany ever was, which I also think is one of the main differences between the US and Germany in RL.

The copper states wrote:Well, do you want it to be? I just made it up on the spot from the roots "obese" and "cracy", but that's how new words get invented I guess

Tubbius is pleased!

Also, His Rotundity is trying on a playful new fashion in Treadwellia: a belt designed to resemble a tape measure. Needless to say, said measurement just keeps going and going.

Guiness Freaks and The copper states

Altenburg International Airport, Loftegen 2
After an arduous 30 hour flight with three stops, the T140 transport aircraft, carrying the advance detachment of Leonism's 500-strong force of military observers for this years strategic exercise "Schedule 2019" of Loftegen's armed forces, finally arrived at its destination airport.

As much as Präfekt-Commander Tanja Fassberg disliked the T140 for its sluggish handling and brick-like maneuverability, she had to admit that the aircraft was a joy to land. When just over the runway, she pulled back on the controls slightly. After a brief and soft "bump", almost fully absorbed by the landing gear's shock absorbers, the grey high-wing transport was already on the ground, taxiing to its assigned spot on the ramp. The Imperial forces had been given a designated parking space situated between the civil and military parts of the airport. Apart from the T140, two F77 space shuttles were expected to arrive, with the remainder of the Imperials taking seats on a normal civilian airline flight on the recently established Leestcheck to Altenburg route, serviced by both Imperial Airways and Loftegen Aloft.

As the T140 neared its parking position, two large haul trucks along with a Airport Security Police escort pulled up to it, eager to receive the two "Illuminator" class 5 MW laser systems onboard the transport, which were being sold to Loftegen as part of a recent arms deal.

Local general staff officers watched the scene from the nearby control tower. Dealing with Leonism had been problematic in the past, as this very airport had seen fighting between traitors from the Imperium and local forces, but in the end it seemed to all come together to a fruitful cooperation
The upcoming exercise would deepen the friendship between the two nations further.

Your Imaginary Friend and Loftegen 2

Aram wrote:How fitting that Aram, a self-titled "Christian State", resurrects in Lazarus of all places.

As the last couple of days have shown you are in good company, Brother.

Your Imaginary Friend, Kappan, Guiness Freaks, and Loftegen 2

Kappan

What gloriously Christian neighbors we have.

Guiness Freaks and Loftegen 2

Adelsin wrote:Sneyland

erm....

<_<

>___> I donno. Which one is the real one?

*continues dishing bowls of moose stew in confusion*

I am the real one

Treadwellia and Loftegen 2

Kappan

I wish someone would make another RP that I can tag along with, 'cause I'm currently creatively bankrupt.

Kappan wrote:I wish someone would make another RP that I can tag along with, 'cause I'm currently creatively bankrupt.

Beer leader is just always impressed with the RP that occurs. Drink!

Your Imaginary Friend and Loftegen 2

Kappan wrote:I wish someone would make another RP that I can tag along with, 'cause I'm currently creatively bankrupt.

Visit Treadwellia! Great food, comfy chairs and couches, year round snow in Piggy Cliff!

Your Imaginary Friend, Kappan, Guiness Freaks, and Loftegen 2

Kappan wrote:I wish someone would make another RP that I can tag along with, 'cause I'm currently creatively bankrupt.

GOP has decided to visit Kappan because she wishes to gain insight into its particular religion and relevant customs... She's spent most of her life in her home country and is at the moment facing a bit of an identity crisis and wishes to resolve it in travel. In true Imaginary fashion, she first talks to everyone she knows who is knowledgeable about Kappan in order to perfect the language and understand its culture better. Then she gathers together a reasonable wardrobe for a 16 year old in Kappan (which is what exactly?) and sets off towards the country in a small sailing vessel along the coast of Custadia, sending a letter in advance to Pope Saul XVI of her decision to visit his country.

Edit: Aw man Treadwellia I didn't even see your post. Great minds think alike! ^-^

Treadwellia, Kappan, Guiness Freaks, and Loftegen 2

An issue about the overcommercialization of the holiday season has a "portly gentleman claiming to be the CEO of a major toy company" giving advice and then "ho ho ho"ing after. Apparently, this is either a guest appearance by Tubbius, or The Chubby Claus talks to himself.

Mzeusia, Loftegen 2, and Pls no copy pasterino

Pls no copy pasterino

Hello, am 48 year man from Somalia. Sorry for my bed england. I selled my wife for internet connection for play counter stirik. I want to become the goodest player like you, i play with 400 ping on brazilian server and i am global elite 2. Pls no copy pasterino my story.

Loftegen 2

Zapatian workers state

I awaken!

Zapatian workers state wrote:I awaken!

Welcome back to the living world!

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