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Odinburgh wrote:So what is this chatter you all talking about?

Condaian wrote:Couple of nations are trying to suppress any free speech in the region sir

Or in a less biased way: a few nation's, including me, are on strike and we refuse to do RP unless the region condemns nazism.

Condaian

Hunzali wrote:Or in a less biased way: a few nation's, including me, are on strike and we refuse to do RP unless the region condemns nazism.

But refuse to admit that you are violating your own damn constitution bu doing so

Hunzali wrote:Or in a less biased way: a few nation's, including me, are on strike and we refuse to do RP unless the region condemns nazism.

Which leads to a slippery slope, which could lead to other ideologies and beliefs. Those of which are protected by the constitution.

Scalesburg and Condaian

Odinburgh wrote:So what is this chatter you all talking about?

Krimera wrote:Which leads to a slippery slope, which could lead to other ideologies and beliefs. Those of which are protected by the constitution.

Which is also why I am attempting to make an all encompasing list of things that would prohibit hate speech, without listing names of such beliefs.

Look at the poll for what I was proposing.
"This poll is to determine our reaffirmation to the condemnation of racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism on the region. Which should be all encompassing for any kind of political/religious/etc belief."

Condaian

Ionalands wrote:I dont want to suppress any viewpoints, I dont want to put in big capital letters "ONLY PEOPLE WITH APPROVE POLITICAL OPINIONS CAN POST HERE". that's not what this is about.

I dont think anything I'm advocating for here is anything absurd or unreasonable. I dont think bigots should be welcomed in this region. I don't want to rp with someone like that, someone who thinks I deserve less rights is not someone I want to chum around with, and I really dont feel bad if they feel unwelcome in this region.

I understand both sides of the argument. It always seems to be the talk put there in the world or in a game like this. I for one don't like bigotseeing or they hate they bring but also I am for free speech. How's this to be balanced? Even I think statues being torn down but only certain ones such as confederate. Then Mt. Rushmore as I don't see anything happening there though yes technically it's stolen land. To what end how far we go, hand our land back to the indians. Now even I am questioning my own self and the future fate of America as it seems tear itself over many times with this deeply rooted issue.That I understand being a sensitive issue.

Odinburgh wrote:I understand both sides of the argument. It always seems to be the talk put there in the world or in a game like this. I for one don't like bigotseeing or they hate they bring but also I am for free speech. How's this to be balanced? Even I think statues being torn down but only certain ones such as confederate. Then Mt. Rushmore as I don't see anything happening there though yes technically it's stolen end. To what end how far we go, hand our land back to the indians. Now even I am questioning my own self and the future fate of America as it seems tear itself over many times with this deeply rooted issue.That I understand being a sensitive issue.

You are completely off the mark of what we are talking about. We are talking about the Region's stance on how to deal with harassment and hate.

Scalesburg and Condaian

Hunzali wrote:Or in a less biased way: a few nation's, including me, are on strike and we refuse to do RP unless the region condemns nazism.

I condemn it. Only region worse that took a bunch of flack was Kaissereich.

Condaian wrote:Couple of nations are trying to suppress any free speech in the region sir

I see.

Condaian

What was this nature of free speech being suppressed? The thing there is ICC and ICC which a fine line runs through. We may have to consider writing some guidelines on that if this is needed to address but it will take us all to agree what it looks like.

Condaian

Odinburgh wrote:What was this nature of free speech being suppressed? The thing there is ICC and ICC which a fine line runs through. We may have to consider writing some guidelines on that if this is needed to address but it will take us all to agree what it looks like.

Hunzali saying anything remotely nazi. Which would cause some problems given how people treat the term nazi today

Odinburgh wrote:What was this nature of free speech being suppressed? The thing there is ICC and ICC which a fine line runs through. We may have to consider writing some guidelines on that if this is needed to address but it will take us all to agree what it looks like.

If by ICC you mean OOC, okay.

But what myself and others are trying to get across is that the constitution protects people based on their political belief. But it doesn't protect them from harassing others. So the way we are trying to solve this problem is to reaffirm that we don't agree with racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism in the region. But others want to include a very specific ideology, which already infringes upon racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism.

Personally, directly naming ideologies and beliefs will lead to a slippery slope where it may start as one but will begin to ban more and more beliefs. Which is against the constitution. Now, I want to also say that it isn't inclusive of the region, but I want to make it known that I'm not talking about the Nazism portion of it. But the slippery slope of it leading to other beliefs.

Condaian

Krimera wrote:Can you then write an example of this in a form that can easily be read and understood without the possibility of easily misunderstanding the stance the region has on this kind of subject.

It's just that I thought the poll I did was good enough.
"This poll is to determine our reaffirmation to the condemnation of racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism on the region. Which should be all encompassing for any kind of political/religious/etc belief."
The focus being on the all encompassing portion. That way any other forms that encroach on what we condemn on is still effected. Just singling out a single ideology, like Hunzali was proposing, wouldn't work well due to fact that there are other forms going by different names.

I don't really have any problem with the wording of the poll, it's something I can get behind on.

But I just dont know what the intent is. Is it just virtue signaling? Or does it actually have any teeth to it?

Condaian wrote:Hunzali saying anything remotely nazi. Which would cause some problems given how people treat the term nazi today

Well I lightly used in here in RP with the Odin Reich without the glorified crap. That be said I don't like Nazis either. Not sure of the remote part you mean. Guess depends on the usage applied.

Ionalands wrote:I don't really have any problem with the wording of the poll, it's something I can get behind on.

But I just dont know what the intent is. Is it just virtue signaling? Or does it actually have any teeth to it?

There is already teeth to it because that's all already in the constitution.

SECTION 3: Protections of Privilege

A.) It shall be considered a crime against the region if any nation is found guilty of harassing another state on the basis of sexual orientation (Homophobia and all other sexualities) , faith (Anti-Semitism) , gender (Sexism) , gender identity, race, income level, age or political leanings. etc

SECTION 7: Defining Criminal Acts Within Novus Lucidum
A.) Harassment through the aggressive taunting, intimidating or threatening of a fellow citizen or citizens shall be defined as a criminal act subject to prosecution.

EDIT: Bold was used to show what I added to the original constitution message.

Odinburgh, Scalesburg, Ionalands, and Condaian

Krimera wrote:If by ICC you mean OOC, okay.

But what myself and others are trying to get across is that the constitution protects people based on their political belief. But it doesn't protect them from harassing others. So the way we are trying to solve this problem is to reaffirm that we don't agree with racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism in the region. But others want to include a very specific ideology, which already infringes upon racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism.

Personally, directly naming ideologies and beliefs will lead to a slippery slope where it may start as one but will begin to ban more and more beliefs. Which is against the constitution. Now, I want to also say that it isn't inclusive of the region, but I want to make it known that I'm not talking about the Nazism portion of it. But the slippery slope of it leading to other beliefs.

Okay I see your point and how wrote that in the Constitution. Hope the wording is okay still unless we need to add something.

Krimera wrote:There is already teeth to it because that's all already in the constitution.

SECTION 3: Protections of Privilege

A.) It shall be considered a crime against the region if any nation is found guilty of harassing another state on the basis of sexual orientation (Homophobia and all other sexualities) , faith (Anti-Semitism) , gender (Sexism) , gender identity, race, income level, age or political leanings. etc

SECTION 7: Defining Criminal Acts Within Novus Lucidum
A.) Harassment through the aggressive taunting, intimidating or threatening of a fellow citizen or citizens shall be defined as a criminal act subject to prosecution.

EDIT: Bold was used to show what I added to the original constitution message.

So it seems the issue here is how do we define "harrassment"

You know Condaian... if you wanna get involved in the region it helps to join WA and the forum right?

Varzo wrote:You know Condaian... if you wanna get involved in the region it helps to join WA and the forum right?

They are on the forum, but they can't use it till they are WA.

Varzo

Does this mean I should post as many Nazi memes on the discord AND "edgy" comments before Hunzali accuses me of witchcraft?

I seriously don't get the edgy part of this. Jesia thrives off being edgy, rather than mature.

Krimera wrote:They are on the forum, but they can't use it till they are WA.

Condaian is WA, they were admitted two hours ago.

Condaian

Interest choice of discussion, and there's lots to read before I form an opinion...

The Arken wrote:Condaian is WA, they were admitted two hours ago.

Ah, then all they need to do now is to endorse Cybran as they are the Lt.Gov

The Arken and Condaian

I mean I feel like it is a fair question to ask.

How do we define "harassment".

Condaian

Krimera wrote:They are on the forum, but they can't use it till they are WA.

Im in the WA

Condaian

Krimera wrote:Ah, then all they need to do now is to endorse Cybran as they are the Lt.Gov

Got ut

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