by Max Barry

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Ionalands wrote:I'm sure he has, but I myself have been trying to meet in the middle where ideologies aren't specifically mentioned.

That's fine, it's just that it's confusing because you both want similar things but at different degrees.

Condaian

I'd like to read out what is LITERALLY on our regional page:

"✔️ All persons are created equal.
✔️ All nations possess the freedom to control their own destiny.
✔️ Novus Lucidum is an inclusive community"

Nazism, which I am trying to ban, undermines 2 of the values we have.

Hunzali wrote:I'd like to read out what is LITERALLY on our regional page:

"✔️ All persons are created equal.
✔️ All nations possess the freedom to control their own destiny.
✔️ Novus Lucidum is an inclusive community"

Nazism, which I am trying to ban, undermines 2 of the values we have.

What's the point in banning the ideology when the harmful parts are already banned? For instance, racism.

Scalesburg and Condaian

Cauva wrote:What's the point in banning the ideology when the harmful parts are already banned? For instance, racism.

Nazism is built on racism, dude. The entire ideology is.

Cauva wrote:What's the point in banning the ideology when the harmful parts are already banned? For instance, racism.

It's like talking to a brick right now. What's the point of banning 1 specific ideology when there are others just like it, but doesn't go by the same name?

Scalesburg, Cauva, and Condaian

Hunzali wrote:Nazism is built on racism, dude. The entire ideology is.

Racism is already banned from the region dude. Just take it as it already banned nazism then. But banning ideologies specifically will lead to a slippery slope.

Scalesburg, Cauva, and Condaian

Krimera wrote:Racism is already banned from the region dude. Just take it as it already banned nazism then. But banning ideologies specifically will lead to a slippery slope.

I hate how "slippery slope" is an argument and that "feelings don't matter", and if we ban Nazism we have to ban LGBT pride cause that offends people, but tell me, when did gay people commit genocide?

Hunzali wrote:I hate how "slippery slope" is an argument and that "feelings don't matter", and if we ban Nazism we have to ban LGBT pride cause that offends people, but tell me, when did gay people commit genocide?

Literally no positives to banning nazism if it's already technically banned.

Scalesburg and Condaian

Cauva wrote:Literally no positives to banning nazism if it's already technically banned.

If it's technically banned, it mustn't be so hard to say nazism is banned by name.

Hunzali wrote:I hate how "slippery slope" is an argument and that "feelings don't matter", and if we ban Nazism we have to ban LGBT pride cause that offends people, but tell me, when did gay people commit genocide?

How about we ban the religions that have committed genocide or hunted and killed others who didn't share their beliefs? Why not go back hundreds of years so that we don't miss anything in our bans.

Hunzali wrote:If it's technically banned, it mustn't be so hard to say nazism is banned by name.

Because once we start banning stuff by name, then it leads to other things being banned due to it being a slippery slope.

Cauva and Condaian

Krimera wrote:How about we ban the religions that have committed genocide or hunted and killed others who didn't share their beliefs? Why not go back hundreds of years so that we don't miss anything in our bans.

If your ideology directly says that other people should be murdered because of their skin colour or religion, it SHOULD be banned.

Krimera wrote:
How about we ban the religions that have committed genocide or hunted and killed others who didn't share their beliefs? Why not go back hundreds of years so that we don't miss anything in our bans.

Exactly. Too much stuff will follow. Racism is banned in an OOC context. No one is going to force an ideology on you. NationStates is based off politics and ideologies in our role play.

Cauva and Condaian

Krimera wrote:How about we ban the religions that have committed genocide or hunted and killed others who didn't share their beliefs? Why not go back hundreds of years so that we don't miss anything in our bans.

The difference between those religions and nazism is that the majority of the believers and people in general, agree in those acts being monstruosities and that the religion always was an excuse for such actions (Imperialism, European overlordship, slavery, Dictatorships, Absolute Monarchies, Greediness, etc), whereas Nazism is based on destruction and on horrible sentiments.

Sixth commandment: "Thou shalt not kill"
Nazism: "Endlösung der Judenfrage" ("Final Solution to the Jewish Question"). The Holocaust. 17 Million (Wikipedia infos) deaths were perpetrated by that ideology (Of which, 6 million Jews).
And you dare compare that to religions who at least changed their ideas as time went by and overall liberalised their way of thinking? It's blatantly disgusting.

Islonia wrote:The difference between those religions and nazism is that the majority of the believers and people in general, agree in those acts being monstruosities and that the religion always was an excuse for such actions (Imperialism, European overlordship, slavery, Dictatorships, Absolute Monarchies, Greediness, etc), whereas Nazism is based on destruction and on horrible sentiments.

Sixth commandment: "Thou shalt not kill"
Nazism: "Endlösung der Judenfrage" ("Final Solution to the Jewish Question"). The Holocaust. 17 Million (Wikipedia infos) deaths were perpetrated by that ideology (Of which, 6 million Jews).
And you dare compare that to religions who at least changed their ideas as time went by and overall liberalised their way of thinking? It's blatantly disgusting.

Then by that understanding, communism should also be banned due to the mass execution of others. If we look at the body counts of ideologies and beliefs, should we ban them by the amount they've killed? Christianity with the crusades, the jihads, etc. Should they be banned for the amount they have killed?

Scalesburg, Cauva, and Condaian

Guys go easy on Hunzali, he means well.

The sarcastic replies and absurdist stretches of what he is saying are rather bad-faith and kind of mean. Banning nazism and banning every religion are two very different things and have no comparison.

There's no slippery slope.

Ionalands wrote:Guys go easy on Hunzali, he means well.

The sarcastic replies and absurdist stretches of what he is saying are rather bad-faith and kind of mean. Banning nazism and banning every religion are two very different things and have no comparison.

There's no slippery slope.

Why not stay with what is currently banned, if any kind of nation (regardless of belief or ideology) displays anything that is banned by the constitution. Then let them be banned. But I don't understand how people are saying that it won't lead to a slippery slope if we start banning by name.

Scalesburg, Cauva, and Condaian

Krimera wrote:Why not stay with what is currently banned, if any kind of nation (regardless of belief or ideology) displays anything that is banned by the constitution. Then let them be banned. But I don't understand how people are saying that it won't lead to a slippery slope if we start banning by name.

People will just start calling it by another name, or making one up. Just to get around the ban on Nazism.

Scalesburg, Cauva, and Condaian

Krimera wrote:Then by that understanding, communism should also be banned due to the mass execution of others. If we look at the body counts of ideologies and beliefs, should we ban them by the amount they've killed? Christianity with the crusades, the jihads, etc. Should they be banned for the amount they have killed?

I think you need to talk an honest reflection on why communism and religion are viewed differently.

Nazism is fundamentally evil, religion and communism aren't. You can be a not-evil communist, and you can be a not-evil religious person, but a not-evil nazi? That's not a thing.

Islonia wrote:The difference between those religions and nazism is that the majority of the believers and people in general, agree in those acts being monstruosities and that the religion always was an excuse for such actions (Imperialism, European overlordship, slavery, Dictatorships, Absolute Monarchies, Greediness, etc), whereas Nazism is based on destruction and on horrible sentiments.

Sixth commandment: "Thou shalt not kill"
Nazism: "Endlösung der Judenfrage" ("Final Solution to the Jewish Question"). The Holocaust. 17 Million (Wikipedia infos) deaths were perpetrated by that ideology (Of which, 6 million Jews).
And you dare compare that to religions who at least changed their ideas as time went by and overall liberalised their way of thinking? It's blatantly disgusting.

Despite your argument of "its changed" and it not blatantly being a part of religious doctrine atrocities have been committed and to this day are being committed in the name of religion.
The ends of their actions are equally and if not more than the Holocaust.

Just because you draw divides between people and mask it behind a diety doesn't erase the effects of religious atrocities.

Condaian

Krimera wrote:Then by that understanding, communism should also be banned due to the mass execution of others. If we look at the body counts of ideologies and beliefs, should we ban them by the amount they've killed? Christianity with the crusades, the jihads, etc. Should they be banned for the amount they have killed?

Communism is composed of various different ideologies. Stalinism is only of a part of it. The USSR was a Totalitarian Communist State that in no way represents the communism. Nazism's sole difference from overall Totalitarian Fascism is the supremacy of the Germanic race by any possible means, including Genocide. For the USSR, it was only a second objective to secure their overlordship in newly annexed territories and preserve their political stability. For the Nazis, it was a primary objective. Both those states committed atrocities, but in no way, an assembly of ideologies such as communism can be flagged as genocidal like Nazism is.

Krimera wrote:People will just start calling it by another name, or making one up. Just to get around the ban on Nazism.

I.e. Strasserism.

Ionalands wrote:I think you need to talk an honest reflection on why communism and religion are viewed differently.

Nazism is fundamentally evil, religion and communism aren't. You can be a not-evil communist, and you can be a not-evil religious person, but a not-evil nazi? That's not a thing.

What about the violent overthrowing of the upper class?

Rilandse wrote:Despite your argument of "its changed" and it not blatantly being a part of religious doctrine atrocities have been committed and to this day are being committed in the name of religion.
The ends of their actions are equally and if not more than the Holocaust.

Just because you draw divides between people and mask it behind a diety doesn't erase the effects of religious atrocities.

Again, religion is only an excuse for committing atrocities, Nazism isn't an excuse, it's the whole purpose behind the actions.

Islonia wrote:Communism is composed of various different ideologies. Stalinism is only of a part of it. The USSR was a Totalitarian Communist State that in no way represents the communism. Nazism's sole difference from overall Totalitarian Fascism is the supremacy of the Germanic race by any possible means, including Genocide. For the USSR, it was only a second objective to secure their overlordship in newly annexed territories and preserve their political stability. For the Nazis, it was a primary objective. Both those states committed atrocities, but in no way, an assembly of ideologies such as communism can be flagged as genocidal like Nazism is.

It's not just the Soviets, but also the Chinese, Cambodians, North Koreans, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan, and Ethiopia.

Rilandse and Condaian

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