by Max Barry

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The Bigtopia wrote:I've got more arguments gone unaddressed:

There is a problem with replacing members of Congress who leave their seats. Holding snap elections for a single seat is not practical under our electoral system. But this is a problem that needs to be addressed anyway, regardless of whether or not cabinet ministers can be members of Congress.

The problem with having cabinet ministers in Congress is that Congress is supposed to hold the government to account over its actions. If members of Congress are 'on the payroll' of the Prime Minister, so to speak, they couldn't be reasonably expected to hold the government to account.

Marvinton, Catlin, Zon island, and The Islamic Country of Honour

The marconian state wrote:

Interesting that he's changed his opinion now. He didn't raise any concerns with the bill when it was in the House.

Marvinton

The Bigtopia wrote:Ilefeb 😭😭😭
page=poll/p=149513

If you had a bill pass with an overwhelming majority in one chamber, and then another chamber with nothing but inexperience block the same bill without adding more ammendments, you'd be pretty salty too.

Marvinton, Snowflame, and Fishergate

Why did the Neo-Greater Germanic Reich vote in our poll?

He‘s not affiliated with Thaecia at all

Titanne

Ilefeb wrote:If you had a bill pass with an overwhelming majority in one chamber, and then another chamber with nothing but inexperience block the same bill without adding more ammendments, you'd be pretty salty too.

Woah there. It’s called bicameralism and democracy, first of all, and I’d hope that you’re familiar enough with both concepts to understand that what happened is not only acceptable but reasonable as well. Different individuals have different thoughts, and there’s nothing you’re going to be able to do about it. Second of all, citing their relative inexperience is pointlessly aggressive. You don’t get more of a voice because you’ve been here longer, it’s just not how it works. Stop complaining, it won’t do anything. Instead, maybe you could be productive and come up with a compromise. Being an MP isn’t about winning every battle, it’s about finding a way to win for the region.

The marconian state, Xernon, The Bigtopia, Zon island, and 1 otherDeppendants

Vote on this poll! :p

https://forms.gle/Wa4tKMXrvpZ3KFMf7

The Bigtopia, Zon island, and Deppendants

Titanne wrote:Woah there. It’s called bicameralism and democracy, first of all, and I’d hope that you’re familiar enough with both concepts to understand that what happened is not only acceptable but reasonable as well. Different individuals have different thoughts, and there’s nothing you’re going to be able to do about it. Second of all, citing their relative inexperience is pointlessly aggressive. You don’t get more of a voice because you’ve been here longer, it’s just not how it works. Stop complaining, it won’t do anything. Instead, maybe you could be productive and come up with a compromise. Being an MP isn’t about winning every battle, it’s about finding a way to win for the region.

The amendments to this bill is a win for the region btw

Fishergate

Marvinton wrote:The amendments to this bill is a win for the region btw

Obviously not if such a sizable portion of the legislature disapproves. Again, no whining, all working. That’s what you should be doing as MPs.

Marvinton

Titanne wrote:Obviously not if such a sizable portion of the legislature disapproves. Again, no whining, all working. That’s what you should be doing as MPs.

"Obviously not if such a sizable portion of the legislature disapproves". The amendments passed with large amounts of support in the HoC to possibly die in the Senate with a vote of 3-3 or 4-3 if Antention votes to reject it. I don't call this a sizable portion of the legislature. I call this a failure of the Senate to pass amendments that will work for the region

Titanne

Hey guys. What's going on the land of Thaecia?
I'm the official ambassador of the FNR for your region from now on, by the way.

Levantx, Korsinia, Rayekka, The marconian state, and 2 othersThe Bigtopia, and Zon island

Marvinton wrote:"Obviously not if such a sizable portion of the legislature disapproves". The amendments passed with large amounts of support in the HoC to possibly die in the Senate with a vote of 3-3 or 4-3 if Antention votes to reject it. I don't call this a sizable portion of the legislature. I call this a failure of the Senate to pass amendments that will work for the region

If the bill is in danger of failing, I’d think it’s safe to say that a sizable portion opposes it.

Emaha wrote:Hey guys. What's going on the land of Thaecia?
I'm the official ambassador of the FNR for your region from now on, by the way.

Welcome Ambassador! Hope we can have good relations with ezch others.

Going on...
- Lots of Fun
- Ministers are being appointed right now in the House

Titanne wrote:If the bill is in danger of failing, I’d think it’s safe to say that a sizable portion opposes it.

Sizable portion of the Senate is against it but remember that it received 5 votes of approval in the HoC with 1 member absent, which was an inactive MP.

Marvinton wrote:Sizable portion of the Senate is against it but remember that it received 5 votes of approval in the HoC with 1 member absent, which was an inactive MP.

First of all, the House voted on the bill in its old session, unless I’m mistaken. The new Congress is different and is bound to disagree with the old one on some things. If this bill is that important to you, you should have gotten it passed when you knew you had the votes for it. I don’t know what to tell you. If it fails, resubmit it, but I doubt the Senate will be pleased that you are taking up there time with a bill they’ve voiced their opinions on.

https://forms.gle/Wa4tKMXrvpZ3KFMf7

The marconian state, Xernon, The Bigtopia, and Deppendants

We're doing a lot of work now in FNR with Crystalsummer as President. There's an article on our last elections and Crystal's plans for the future on NS Today:
https://nationstates.news/crystalsummer-sweeps-to-power-as-new-president-of-the-free-nations-region/1511/

Levantx, The marconian state, Titanne, The Bigtopia, and 1 otherZon island

Titanne wrote:First of all, the House voted on the bill in its old session, unless I’m mistaken. The new Congress is different and is bound to disagree with the old one on some things. If this bill is that important to you, you should have gotten it passed when you knew you had the votes for it. I don’t know what to tell you. If it fails, resubmit it, but I doubt the Senate will be pleased that you are taking up there time with a bill they’ve voiced their opinions on.

https://forms.gle/Wa4tKMXrvpZ3KFMf7

How could I have passed it if the Senate speaker went inactive and I resigned from the Senate?

Titanne and Behniastan

Marvinton wrote:How could I have passed it if the Senate speaker went inactive and I resigned from the Senate?

I don’t know. My point is that you can’t complain that things didn’t work out. It was due to circumstances out of your control and one of the key aspects of a healthy democracy: differing opinions.

Ilefeb wrote:If you had a bill pass with an overwhelming majority in one chamber, and then another chamber with nothing but inexperience block the same bill without adding more ammendments, you'd be pretty salty too.

My bro, there is literally nothing I can do about inexperience besides gain it--the same applies to all the other senators. (besides the ones who'd already been elected) Personally, although I'm obviously biased, I believe that new faces in Thaecia is a great thing. Doing my best here to run the Senate, and I'd be happy to get feedback and suggestions -- I'm flying by the seat of my pants here.

Xernon and Deppendants

Titanne wrote:I don’t know. My point is that you can’t complain that things didn’t work out. It was due to circumstances out of your control and one of the key aspects of a healthy democracy: differing opinions.

Actually nevermind, Catlin just changed their vote to approve of the amendments and it's most likely going to pass now which is great news!

Behniastan

Titanne wrote:Woah there. It’s called bicameralism and democracy, first of all, and I’d hope that you’re familiar enough with both concepts to understand that what happened is not only acceptable but reasonable as well. Different individuals have different thoughts, and there’s nothing you’re going to be able to do about it. Second of all, citing their relative inexperience is pointlessly aggressive. You don’t get more of a voice because you’ve been here longer, it’s just not how it works. Stop complaining, it won’t do anything. Instead, maybe you could be productive and come up with a compromise. Being an MP isn’t about winning every battle, it’s about finding a way to win for the region.

1. I know, I know. I'm just salty and frustrated.
2. I can complain because I voted (talking as a citizen here), if I didn't, then it wouldn't be justified.
3. I came up with compromises on the House floor, I do that with a lot of bills. A compromise might be made if the Senate made their own ammendments to the bill, but no.

Levantx, The marconian state, Titanne, and The Bigtopia

Ilefeb wrote:1. I know, I know. I'm just salty and frustrated.
2. I can complain because I voted (talking as a citizen here), if I didn't, then it wouldn't be justified.
3. I came up with compromises on the House floor, I do that with a lot of bills. A compromise might be made if the Senate made their own ammendments to the bill, but no.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with this bill's premise, and therefore can't really think of any compromises I could really make. It just seems unnecessary for all the reasons I've been floating around. Plus, it was agreed on with the Senate coalition.

Xernon and Ilefeb

Titanne wrote:If the bill is in danger of failing, I’d think it’s safe to say that a sizable portion opposes it.

If it were to fail in this vote it would be because 4/7 Senators voted against it. Given that the House voted 5-0 on the bill, that would mean just 1/3 (4/12) of the legislature was opposed to it.

Perhaps this is another reason for unicameralism – if a supermajority of congressional support for a bill isn’t enough to get it passed just because the opposition to the bill happens to be concentrated into one chamber. That seems rather arbitrary and somewhat undemocratic to me.

Marvinton and Saint Alban Islands

Fishergate wrote:If it were to fail in this vote it would be because 4/7 Senators voted against it. Given that the House voted 5-0 on the bill, that would mean just 1/3 (4/12) of the legislature was opposed to it.

Perhaps this is another reason for unicameralism – if a supermajority of congressional support for a bill isn’t enough to get it passed just because the opposition to the bill happens to be concentrated into one chamber. That seems rather arbitrary and somewhat undemocratic to me.

Gotta toot the Unicamerialism horn always...
Sometimes I wonder whether Paropia's inactivity was a ploy to get people to favor Unicameralism lol

Andusre, Xernon, and Titanne

Fishergate wrote:If it were to fail in this vote it would be because 4/7 Senators voted against it. Given that the House voted 5-0 on the bill, that would mean just 1/3 (4/12) of the legislature was opposed to it.

Perhaps this is another reason for unicameralism – if a supermajority of congressional support for a bill isn’t enough to get it passed just because the opposition to the bill happens to be concentrated into one chamber. That seems rather arbitrary and somewhat undemocratic to me.

It is what it is.
As frustrated as I am, I would rather have this than unicameralism.

Xernon, Titanne, and The Bigtopia

I just passed my Honors Pre-calc test😁I'm so happy about it!

Marvinton, The marconian state, Andusre, Xernon, and 3 othersThe Bigtopia, Shoila, and Zon island

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