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Prudentias wrote:Most Catholics are "raised Catholics", you know the joke about the girl who studies on Catholic School and became a promiscuous, anti-catholic and feminist college sorority s**t? People think that it is because the Catholic School was so conservative, I studied on Catholic School and I may assure you, the problem is that Catholicism became so liberal, most Catholics fear been considered modern inquisition if they try to enforce some rules, sadly if you want a girl to became a promiscuous feminist, all you need is yo put her on a Catholic School, most of it don't apply a Catholic education, everything is like "punishment will be so hard, let's not be inquisitors like in the past, let's just talk about love and let the girl that made sex with two boys on the school bathrooms alone."

I couldn't agree more, I attend a Canadian "Catholic" school and pretty much all the girls and several of the boys are far left, pro lgbtq, pro abortion, pro premarital sex and so much more.

Omensa, Les versailles, Francis, Libertad siempre, and 2 othersThe Pilgrims in the Desert, and Terentino

The Pilgrims in the Desert wrote:To add on to this I can actually turn these two terms back onto the left. When it comes to Canada the Left (in terms of feminism, LGBT stuff, and abortion, etc.) are pretty nationalistic. "Look at how 'free' our nation is. Look at all the 'rights' our citizens have!"

Me? While I do love my country I don't look at Canada and say, "Look at all the 'freedom' we have!" I don't support literally thousands if not millions dying by abortion nor the moral decay of society. I love my country very much yet part of that love is wanting it to turn from it's wicked ways.

Criticizing your country when it actually is  needed is love (willing the good of the other), staying silent when great evil is being committed is in no way loving your country, blindly supporting it is not loving your nation.

Yet again if you criticize something that the nation is doing good (for example: helping the poor) that's also not good. Supporting your nation when it does something good is loving your nation.

People think patriotism and nationalism is simply describing the Right wingers\traditionalists. No. You can have a nationalistic Leftist, just look to the USSR.

Exactly!

Libertad siempre, Cristero, and The Pilgrims in the Desert

For some reason Pope Francis has given Eugenio Scalfari another interview. Try to ignore whatever is claimed the Pope said this time.

Sundiata

Lagrodia wrote:For some reason Pope Francis has given Eugenio Scalfari another interview. Try to ignore whatever is claimed the Pope said this time.

This just in: Pope Francis is a Hindu.

[SATIRE]

Sundiata wrote:That is untrue, St. Josemaria Escriva makes this distinction. After all, he saw the Spanish Civil War and the World Wars that followed.

Patriotism is a love of one's country while Nationalism tends to be is its jingoistic, unquestioning counterpart. Before the love of one's country comes the love of God.

That is marxist indoctrination.

Patria/motherland refers to soil and nation refers to blood. Jus sollis and jus sanguinis.
Because the nazis were racist, The Left has tried to connect nationalism to fascism when the two are not the same.

Bismarck, Garibaldi etc called themselves nationalist and while revolutionary, no one would accuse them of being fascist.

This is why the term ULTRA-nationalism exists. Use nazi, use fascist, do NOT use nationalist because what you are basically saying is that peoples without territory are necessarily fascist.

Libertad siempre

Les versailles

Above all else we need pietas, which is loyalty to God, loyalty to your country, loyalty to your community, and loyalty to your family.

I find patriotism, and nationalism, inadequate.

Katholskur, Qwertyl, and The Pilgrims in the Desert

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:That is marxist indoctrination.

Patria/motherland refers to soil and nation refers to blood. Jus sollis and jus sanguinis.
Because the nazis were racist, The Left has tried to connect nationalism to fascism when the two are not the same.

Bismarck, Garibaldi etc called themselves nationalist and while revolutionary, no one would accuse them of being fascist.

This is why the term ULTRA-nationalism exists. Use nazi, use fascist, do NOT use nationalist because what you are basically saying is that peoples without territory are necessarily fascist.

Why are you so attached to the term nationalist when you're aware of the fascistic/racist implications? I don't think that's a strictly left-wing or "Marxist" criticism, rather just one rooted in mainstream political science.

Les versailles wrote:Above all else we need pietas, which is loyalty to God, loyalty to your country, loyalty to your community, and loyalty to your family.

I find patriotism, and nationalism, inadequate.

It's rank of authority. I listen to the Major before I listen to the Seargeant, listen to the Seargeant before the Corporal, and if the General tells me it's time to do plan C it's time soldier you gotta go!

Same with society. Who's the top of the authority link? God.

Qwertyl and Libertad siempre

Tonight the moon is shining brightly. It is interesting how just like the moon's light is simply reflecting the sun's light.

So too with Mary. Her holiness is like to moon reflecting the sun's light.

Last night there were clouds, black from the lack of light. They gathered around the moon and tried to unsuceasfully block the moon's light. It's like the more we love Mother Mary the more we see how great God is. Just as now the clouds are gone tonight I see the moon shining bright.

Isn't the moon beautiful. A light in a sky of darkness. Reflecting the sun's light. We ourselves can be like the moon. We can be a light in the dark sky. When we sin it is like the moon, hiding behind the Earth from the sun not bringing forth light in an otherwise dark sky.

Qwertyl, Libertad siempre, and Cristero

Sundiata wrote:Why are you so attached to the term nationalist when you're aware of the fascistic/racist implications? I don't think that's a strictly left-wing or "Marxist" criticism, rather just one rooted in mainstream political science.

Because we all live in a nation and have every right to be ...................nationalist.

There are no such implications. Those are artificially manufactured by the Left. Don't follow their script.

Being a democrat is not the same as being communist and being patriotic is not racist!

Don't let them qualify reality to fit their ends. That is what they always do when they run out of arguments: they move the goalposts by redefining terms.

They need newspeak and fallacies to survive contention. We do not.

Nationalism is nationalism and racism is racism. Separate things.

Libertad siempre

Sundiata

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:Because we all live in a nation and have every right to be ...................nationalist.

There are no such implications. Those are artificially manufactured by the Left. Don't follow their script.
Being a democrat is not the same as being communist and being patriotic is not racist!

What? You can be patriotic without being nationalistic/and or racist.

Nothing I am saying is politically partisan.

Sundiata wrote:What? You can't be patriotic without being nationalistic/and or racist.

1. You can

2. So you are saying we shouldn't be patriotic?!!..................................................

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:1. You can

2. So you are saying we shouldn't be patriotic?!!..................................................

No, I'm saying you should be patriotic.

Sundiata wrote:No, I'm saying you should be patriotic.

Well, if "You can't be patriotic without being nationalistic/and or racist" AND "you should be patriotic" THEN by your own rationale we should be racist.........................................

??!!........

Removing the terminology what we're saying is don't run head first into an ideological wall simply because you want to blindly support something. If your nation is doing something bad don't blindly follow along.

If Prime Minister Trudeau says every first born child must be gay by law and anyone who doesn't comply shall go to the gulags of Nunavut don't go blindly supporting that. Saying that you will support that policy because you're Canadian is a shining example of nationalism if you define it as blindly supporting an idea simply because it comes from your nation.

We aren't saying don't love your nation. We're saying don't go about blindly supporting every little thing your nation does simply because it's your nation. If my parents wanted me to do something horrible I will still love them but I am not going to sin because they told me to and they're my parents.

Of course I think the big problem is that you can't very well have a fruitful discussion if you can't agree on the meaning of a word. Very much the language barrier between Left and Right is extremely Orwellian where we can no longer agree on important words. Example: Equality.

Edit: Also Sundiata probably made a typing mistake. I know I often use mobile and it's hard not to make a mistake typing.

Sundiata and Qwertyl

Long day.

I meant to say "You can be patriotic without being nationalistic or racist."

The Pilgrims in the Desert wrote:Removing the terminology what we're saying is don't run head first into an ideological wall simply because you want to blindly support something. If your nation is doing something bad don't blindly follow along.

If Prime Minister Trudeau says every first born child must be gay by law and anyone who doesn't comply shall go to the gulags of Nunavut don't go blindly supporting that. Saying that you will support that policy because you're Canadian is a shining example of nationalism if you define it as blindly supporting an idea simply because it comes from your nation.

We aren't saying don't love your nation. We're saying don't go about blindly supporting every little thing your nation does simply because it's your nation. If my parents wanted me to do something horrible I will still love them but I am not going to sin because they told me to and they're my parents.

Of course I think the big problem is that you can't very well have a fruitful discussion if you can't agree on the meaning of a word. Very much the language barrier between Left and Right is extremely Orwellian where we can no longer agree on important words. Example: Equality.

Edit: Also Sundiata probably made a typing mistake. I know I often use mobile and it's hard not to make a mistake typing.

This.

Ask God for forgiveness and all your sins will be forgiven!

Confess to Jesus Christ or Lord and God because he knows your heart, you cannot hide anything from him.

Matthew 6:14 "For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,"

Proverbs 28:13 "Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy."

Les versailles

There is a common misconception, even those in politics, and in academia, that associates nationalism with fascism, or socialism, or a sort of authoritarian government.

Nationalism is, at the bare minimum, prioritising the interest of your nation.

Therefore, it is not necessarily bad. When discussing policy about sovereignty, economics, national security, and foreign policy, a moderate level of nationalism is necessary in order to defend and pursue the national interest.

When territorial conflicts occur between nations, what is at play? Nationalism, defending your national territory against those who dispute it.

The problem with constantly denigrating nationalism is that it allows for globalists, who have little loyalty or interest to any national identity, to pursue their own agenda by merely accusing those who oppose them as bad people.

In more accurate political terms, there is a conflict between the somewheres (those who care about their own nation, and only have loyalty to one nation) and the anywheres (people who don't care about any nation, and only care about what is convenient for them).

Populism is on the rise exactly because the somewheres, the ordinary working people who only have one nation to call home, are not exactly benefiting from the internationally oriented policies of the anywheres, those who are able to transplant themselves in any country without much trouble. If you reject populism, then you need a healthy dose of nationalism to protect the interest of the somewheres.

What is even more bizarre is that this position is not particularly radical at all, this is quite common amongst conservative circles, although it is not well-known. Nonetheless, this is why I propose pietas as the preferred value, because it encompasses both nationalism, patriotism, and our faith.

Oire, United hispaniola, The Sovereign Realist State, Libertad siempre, and 2 othersThe Pilgrims in the Desert, and Terentino

Anmola wrote:Poland are actually becoming more conservative and catholic

Poland is lacking the Protestant infiltration. Everywhere to the west the WASPs are turning disgust at moral degeneracy into that white nationalist gibberish. The Church should be hoovering up support over this in the west but appears to be captured by the ms media. (so I guess Fredgast is right about the Pope then...)

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:

Bismarck, Garibaldi etc called themselves nationalist and while revolutionary, no one would accuse them of being fascist.

Bismark was an anti Catholic Lutheran. Garibaldi was a Protestant Republican Freemason - the scourge of Catholic nations.

Les versailles wrote:

Nationalism is, at the bare minimum, prioritising the interest of your nation.

There are lots of semantics here. Nationalism at it's bare minimum can be defining your nation.
I'd be a strong nationalist but wouldn't call myself a patriot.

Sundiata

Pray for Holy Pope Benedict!

Heard that Pope Benedict is unwell. Prayers for him.

United hispaniola, Fredgast, Thomas More, Sundiata, and 1 otherThe Pilgrims in the Desert

Omensa wrote:Heard that Pope Benedict is unwell. Prayers for him.

He got the shingles, I was lucky and got it young but I heard it is very painful for elders who get it

Nueva celtiberia

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:Because we all live in a nation and have every right to be ...................nationalist.

There are no such implications. Those are artificially manufactured by the Left. Don't follow their script.

Being a democrat is not the same as being communist and being patriotic is not racist!

Don't let them qualify reality to fit their ends. That is what they always do when they run out of arguments: they move the goalposts by redefining terms.

They need newspeak and fallacies to survive contention. We do not.

Nationalism is nationalism and racism is racism. Separate things.

We suffer nationalism in Spain and it is not separable from racism. They usually come together

Sundiata

Nueva celtiberia wrote:We suffer nationalism in Spain and it is not separable from racism. They usually come together

You "suffer nationalism".... I am not sure what that means.

Nationalism is simply an identity. I don't see how nationalism in Spain has anything to do with racism given that Spain has always been racially homogeneous.

Spain's problem is that it has competing nationalisms. This is common around the world and in no way related to race.

United hispaniola

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