by Max Barry

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I have returned the grave and bring dire warnings! Hell has a Blockbuster and the only movie for rent is Ishtar!

Alexanderian Macedonia wrote:...the only movie for rent is Ishtar!

Welcome back!

DVD or VHS?

Westwind Armed Forces wrote:Welcome back!

DVD or VHS?

betamax

Whamabama wrote:betamax

Upon research, it appears Ebay is out of stock of the Betamax and Laser disc releases. Ah well.

Westwind Armed Forces wrote:Upon research, it appears Ebay is out of stock of the Betamax and Laser disc releases. Ah well.

Then there is still hope for us...

Whew, you all. I just did a deep dive in my records, back to diplomatic adventures in summer 2008. Anyone (Westwind, Whamabama, Chaucerin) remember what was going on in TNP at the time? Was that the Crimson Order?

I've gotten so NS-old I need my own rocking chair and memory aids these days. :)

Naivetry wrote:Whew, you all. I just did a deep dive in my records, back to diplomatic adventures in summer 2008. Anyone (Westwind, Whamabama, Chaucerin) remember what was going on in TNP at the time? Was that the Crimson Order?

I've gotten so NS-old I need my own rocking chair and memory aids these days. :)

You are close. Summer of 2008 was post-Crimson Order TNP. I was TNP Delegate from late January to early May 2008, and RL took me out of activity till I came back later. I recall TNP passed a law soon after to make changing forums by the Delegate illegal. *chuckles*

Westwind wrote:You are close. Summer of 2008 was post-Crimson Order TNP. I was TNP Delegate from late January to early May 2008, and RL took me out of activity till I came back later. I recall TNP passed a law soon after to make changing forums by the Delegate illegal. *chuckles*

Gooootcha. The diplomatic adventures in question were that little spat we had with the FRA... a combination of Falconias nearly starting a war with Equilism in a single post, the FRA's refusal to get Falc to apologize, our contention that the FRA was inappropriately attempting to condition cooperation on us giving FRA officers access to our military forums, the FRA retracting our access to their forums as a diplomatic maneuver to signal disapproval of TNP despite the FRA's supposedly apolitical nature... you know. All that fun. :P

I don't know if I have the complete records from those talks we had in private on the FRA forums in an attempt to salvage diplomatic relations, but I do have a draft of a massive post that was part of that exchange. It mentions all sorts of things I'd forgotten about, like SIREN and the Military Liaison Pacts we used to sign. And it's the only time I got to play my normal diplomatic strategy to its logical end. Usually people moderate their behavior when you fail to react to their insults; the FRA did not. So I waited until they'd dug themselves a hole so deep they couldn't get out of it, then flipped the switch and explained extremely thoroughly why our apparent lack of reaction was the result of incredible self-restraint in the face of their inexcusable behavior, not timidity or weakness. I'd never gotten to do that before and haven't since, which is probably why I still remembered enough of the opening lines of that post to find it on my hard drive with a keyword search - even though I couldn't remember what exactly had happened in TNP to set it all off!

Naivetry wrote:Gooootcha. The diplomatic adventures in question were that little spat we had with the FRA... a combination of Falconias nearly starting a war with Equilism in a single post, the FRA's refusal to get Falc to apologize, our contention that the FRA was inappropriately attempting to condition cooperation on us giving FRA officers access to our military forums, the FRA retracting our access to their forums as a diplomatic maneuver to signal disapproval of TNP despite the FRA's supposedly apolitical nature... you know. All that fun. :P

Yeah, and some of those FRA types still can't get over their hate of Equilism 14 years later. Just check the thread on a proposed commendation for Equilism, and you'll find Numero Capitan still proclaiming that Equilism is evil 'because Westwind!' And I get random tg's from defenders The Gray Wardens still bragging they took Warzone Europe from us.
Defenders are seriously demented.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=482358

Elsewhere, the beloved defender Drop You Pants said I'm 'irrelevant' to NS. Nice attitude they still have, eh? Defenders are absolutely toxic, stay away from them. We made the right decision to leave defenderdom in '06, ha!

Westwind wrote:Yeah, and some of those FRA types still can't get over their hate of Equilism 14 years later. Just check the thread on a proposed commendation for Equilism, and you'll find Numero Capitan still proclaiming that Equilism is evil 'because Westwind!'

Yeah, that's what led to my deep dive through my records. It'd be interesting if they could name anyone else from Equilism - or even a dual citizen - who did something they found objectionable. Equility, Ostendt, Neo, Merl, Asta, Chauce, me, Fel, Wham, Tycho, Moo, Tse - so many others I know I'm forgetting to mention - who exactly are these multiple "leaders" who were the hidden axis of evil disrupting all of NS?

If the problem was that some of us in Equilism also hung out with power players and troublemakers outside our region - Nee, Biyah, Dali, BW, Dark, Nev, etc. - well, yes, we did! But they weren't from Equilism and their actions weren't ours. We also hung out with Elu, Kandy, CG, Sedge, Goober... anyone who showed up on IRC or a shared forum whose presence made the game more interesting and complex.

I guess the real issue is that we stopped shunning anyone OOC based on their IC stances after Imperial Equilism and TRR. And we both cared about and got more involved in the realpolitik of activity when it came to feeder politics than "apolitical" defender groups were comfortable with. Neither of those met the defender fundamentalist purity test. But that purity test is why I developed a deep ambivalence about the defender world as a whole, despite my constant and emphatic attachment to defending. Any ideology which requires you to demonize the people who disagree with you is an ideology of harm, no matter how much it dresses itself up in the language of righteousness.

Naivetry wrote:I guess the real issue is that we stopped shunning anyone OOC based on their IC stances after Imperial Equilism and TRR.

Yeah, we weren't absolutists anymore. Founder Equility established the perma-ban of all raiders in the region and forum from the beginning. I never fully agreed with that, how can you have negotiations and debate with no communication or contact? (We weren't suppose to acknowledge our enemies right to exist.) So I finally felt comfortable removing his restrictions a year after he was gone as part of Imperial Equilism. Freed us to become active again in the new world of Influence.

Equility's strict policies toward Raiders (called Invaders at the time) came from his start in 10000 Islands, and Grub was always more absolutist with their defending. So much so that 10KI often doesn't play well with other defenders. And thus drove Equility to found Equilism after 2 weeks there. To do what 10KI was doing, but in cooperation with all other defenders.

Cooperative action has always been a hallmark of Equilism's relations. Which lead to our tremendous resource base of leaders working closely with other leaders of all stripes all around NS. And why we still have Embassies with Feeders even though we're so inactive.

Naivetry wrote:Any ideology which requires you to demonize the people who disagree with you is an ideology of harm, no matter how much it dresses itself up in the language of righteousness.

That's why DYP's comment was so disturbing. He claims to be a non-moral defender, defending just for fun, but lays out the toxic language because he disagreed with me. And all I was doing is defending our ally that they raided, just as he's done a thousand times. Defenders USE TO agree with that. Now they make excuses for their own raiding, and point fingers and laugh at others like playground bullies. Just like the Invaders they use to hate.

Our E-Army always had more Esprit de corps, and kept it professional. We didn't mock our enemies, we remained professional and efficient.

Naivetry wrote:I've gotten so NS-old I need my own rocking chair and memory aids these days. :)

*Brings Nai her own rocking chair and serves her breakfast*

Westwind wrote:Founder Equility established the perma-ban of all raiders in the region and forum from the beginning. I never fully agreed with that, how can you have negotiations and debate with no communication or contact?

Welllllll, without full context, I must introduce the Paradox of Tolerance as an idea to be upheld. There can be no reasonable debate with someone who violently oposes your very exixtence which is not the same thing at all as opposing the existence of those who oppose the existence of others.

Westwind wrote:Our E-Army always had more Esprit de corps, and kept it professional. We didn't mock our enemies, we remained professional and efficient.

And this is most well done.

Small Huts wrote:

Welllllll, without full context, I must introduce the Paradox of Tolerance as an idea to be upheld. There can be no reasonable debate with someone who violently oposes your very exixtence which is not the same thing at all as opposing the existence of those who oppose the existence of others.

There were two or three conferences between defenders and raiders of the time, that tried to tame some of the confrontational nature of the dynamic. I think the main win from those was for Raiders, who insisted that Defenders stop calling them Invaders.

Westwind wrote:There were two or three conferences between defenders and raiders of the time, that tried to tame some of the confrontational nature of the dynamic. I think the main win from those was for Raiders, who insisted that Defenders stop calling them Invaders.

So, you're saying the solution is to re-popularize the term "Invaders?" On it—NOSTALGIA OVERLOAD!

Alexanderian Macedonia wrote:So, you're saying the solution is to re-popularize the term "Invaders?" On it—NOSTALGIA OVERLOAD!

*chuckles* Ah, nostalgia! Funny thing was, one of the Raider groups was called 'The Invaders'.

BTW, Whamabama and I were discussing some ideas for Equilism recently. I think he's still waiting for me to follow up, while I've been getting settled into my new home. And I briefly discussed some interregional ideas to our friends in TNP, as we would be looking to invite them and others for what we were discussing.

Yes Equilism, you still have a semi-functional government in touch with our allies. :P

*the water is almost boiled, the biscuits🫓, sandwiches🥪, paninis, and cake🧁 are on the tray, the sugar bowl and milk jug are set, and the cups, teapots, tumblers, and mugs are on standby*🫖

Some former regionmates are currently running a page=poll/p=187814 about tea of coffee? so I thought I'd share it here. (Also please check out and upvote a dispatch below that I cowrote) Cheers! I wish you all a great week and weekend ahead!


(above) Triceraton soldier meeting the enemy head-on

Amid the fog of war, it can be hard to see the way forward. The news from the battlefield, the diplomatic noises off, the emotion of the grieving and displaced; all of this can be overwhelming. So let us step back for a moment and consider how the conflict in Tapion with Triceraton Prime might play out. What are some of the possible scenarios that politicians and military planners are examining? Few can predict the future with confidence, but here are some potential outcomes. Most are bleak.

Short war.
Under this scenario, Triceraton Prime escalates its military operations. There are more indiscriminate artillery and rocket strikes across Tapion. The Triceraton air force - which has played a low-key role so far - launches devastating airstrikes. Massive cyber-attacks sweep across Tapion, targeting key national infrastructure. Energy supplies and communications networks are cut off. Thousands of civilians die. Despite brave resistance, Pearl Milk Ikspiari falls within days. The government is replaced with a pro-Zanramon puppet regime. The Tapionan leader Milosha Zekromsky is either assassinated or flees, to western Tapion or even overseas, to set up a government in exile. Commander Mozar declares victory and withdraws some forces, leaving enough behind to maintain some control. Thousands of refugees continue to flee west. Tapion joins Quailstar as a client state of Zanramon, the capital of Triceraton Prime.


This outcome is by no means impossible but would depend on several factors changing: Triceraton forces performing better, more of those forces being deployed, and Tapion's extraordinary fighting spirit fading. Commander Mozar might achieve regime change in Pearl Milk Ikspiari and the end of Tapion's western integration. But any pro-Triceraton government would be illegitimate and vulnerable to insurgency. Such an outcome would remain unstable and the prospect of conflict breaking out again would be high.

Long war
Perhaps more likely is that this develops into a protracted war. Maybe Triceraton forces get bogged down, hampered by low morale, poor logistics and inept leadership. Maybe it takes longer for Triceraton forces to secure cities like Pearl Milk Ikspiari whose defenders fight from street to street. A long siege ensues. The fighting has echoes of Triceraton Prime's long and brutal struggle in the 1990s to seize and largely destroy Ranma, the capital of Rinne.



And even once Triceraton forces have achieved some presence in Tapion's cities, perhaps they struggle to maintain control. Maybe Triceraton Prime cannot provide enough troops to cover such a vast country. Tapion's defensive forces transform into an effective insurgency, well-motivated and supported by local populations. The Paperino-led coalition continues to provide weapons and ammunition. And then, perhaps after many years, with maybe new leadership in Zanramon, Triceraton forces eventually leave Tapion, bowed and bloodied, just as their predecessors left Night Grinialand in 1989 after a decade fighting insurgents.

Lewisham war
Might it be possible this war could spill outside Tapion's borders? Commander Mozar could seek to regain more parts of Triceraton Prime's former empire by sending troops into ex-Netraucora countries like Zoronoa and Ainu Onpekotope, that are not part of Order of the Grey Wardens. Or there could just be miscalculation and escalation. Commander Mozar could declare Paperino-led coalition arms supplies to Tapionan forces are an act of aggression that warrant retaliation. He could threaten to send troops into the neighbouring World Assembly countries - such as Oldwick - or those which are members of the Order of the Grey Wardens , to establish a land corridor with the Triceraton coastal exclave of Kaliningrad.


This would be hugely dangerous and risk war with the Security Council. Under Article 5 of the military alliance's charter, an attack on one member is an attack on all. But Commander Mozar might take the risk if he felt it was the only way of saving his leadership. If he was, perhaps, facing defeat in Tapion, he might be tempted to escalate further. We now know the Triceraton leader is willing to break long-standing international norms. This same logic can be applied to the use of nuclear weapons. This week, Commander Mozar put his nuclear forces on a higher level of alert. Most analysts doubt this means their use is likely or imminent. But it was a reminder that Triceraton doctrine allows for the possible use of tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield.

Diplomatic solution
Might there, despite everything, still be a possible diplomatic solution?

"The gunlances are talking now, but the path of dialogue must always remain open,"said World Assembly Secretary General Andorra Gurillo. Certainly dialogue continues. Ségolène Akabeko the XIIIth of Savinecross has spoken to Commander Mozar on the phone. Diplomats say feelers are being stretched out to Zanramon. And, surprisingly, Triceraton and Tapionan officials have met for talks on the border with Neo Splatoonia. They might not have made much progress. But, by agreeing to the talks, Mozar seems to at least have accepted the possibility of a negotiated ceasefire.

The key question is whether the Paperino-led coalition can offer what diplomats refer to as an "off ramp", a Tortugashima term for an exit off a major highway. Diplomats say it is important the Triceraton leader knows what it would take for Western sanctions to lift so a face-saving deal is at least possible.

Consider this scenario. The war goes badly for Triceraton Prime. Sanctions begin to unsettle Zanramon. Opposition grows as body bags return home. Commander Mozar wonders if he has bitten off more than he can chew. He judges that continuing the war may be a greater threat to his leadership than the humiliation of ending it. Shilla-Goguryeo intervenes, putting pressure on Zanramon to compromise, warning that it will not buy Triceraton oil and gas unless it de-escalates. So Commander Mozar starts to look for a way out. Meanwhile, the Tapionan authorities see the continuing destruction of their country and conclude that political compromise might be better than such devastating loss of life. So diplomats engage and a deal is done. Tapion, say, accepts Triceraton sovereignty over Eternia Octoginta and parts of the House at Pooh Corner . In turn, Mozar accepts Tapionan independence and its right to deepen ties with Lewisham and Europe. This may not seem likely. But it is not beyond the realms of plausibility that such a scenario could emerge from the wreckage of a bloody conflict.

(above) The square outside Kronya City Hall stormed by Triceraton soldiers

Mozar ousted
And what of Commander Mozar himself? When he launched his invasion, he declared: "We are ready for any outcome."

But what if that outcome was him losing power? It might seem unthinkable. Yet the world has changed in recent days and such things are now thought about. Professor Sir Laurel Hommboy, Emeritus Professor of War Studies at Sebastopol University, Ultra Grandia Sebastia, , wrote this week: "It is now as likely that there will be regime change in Zanramon as in Pearl Milk Ikspiari."


(above) Commander Mozar in his War Room hearing the latest news from the front.

Why might he say this? Well, perhaps Commander Mozar pursues a disastrous war. Thousands of Triceraton soldiers die. The economic sanctions bite. Commander Mozar loses popular support. Perhaps there is the threat of popular revolution. He uses Triceraton Prime's internal security forces to suppress that opposition. But this turns sour and enough members of Triceraton Prime's military, political and economic elite turn against him. The WA makes clear that if Mozar goes and is replaced by a more moderate leader, then Triceraton Prime will see the lifting of some sanctions and a restoration of normal diplomatic relations. There is a bloody palace coup and Mozar is out. Again, this may not seem likely right now. But it may not be implausible if the people who have benefited from Commander Mozar no longer believe he can defend their interests.

Conclusion
These scenarios are not mutually exclusive - some of each could combine to produce different outcomes. But however this conflict plays out, the world has changed. It will not return to the status quo ante. Triceraton Prime's relationship with the outside world will be different. European and Lewisham attitudes to security will be transformed. And the liberal, international rules-based order might just have rediscovered what it was for in the first place.



Read factbook

Westwind wrote:*chuckles* Ah, nostalgia! Funny thing was, one of the Raider groups was called 'The Invaders'.

BTW, Whamabama and I were discussing some ideas for Equilism recently. I think he's still waiting for me to follow up, while I've been getting settled into my new home. And I briefly discussed some interregional ideas to our friends in TNP, as we would be looking to invite them and others for what we were discussing.

Yes Equilism, you still have a semi-functional government in touch with our allies. :P

Can we all gather round and listen to you tell tales of glory and death during the Great War(s)? I'm told it was you who slew Franco Spain in single combat!

Alexanderian Macedonia wrote:Can we all gather round and listen to you tell tales of glory and death during the Great War(s)? I'm told it was you who slew Franco Spain in single combat!

But the Great Wars were all so long ago!

*chuckles* I dunno, according to the NPO, FS died in RL. Or so they said until they admitted the truth otherwise years later. I still have a copy of their memorial flag for FS that was designed by Warrior Thorin. Of course, while NPO mourned his staged death, Francos Spain was actually hanging out in some small UCR with another puppet nation. Might still be around out there. I found out the truth about Francos Spain via the GLA, a couple weeks after NPO claimed he died. It remained a NS secret for some years.

Years later, NPO tried to hide the RL death of NPO Delegate/Emperor (former Equilism President) Moo-cow with Guns. NPO has a strange habit of abusing RL deaths (fake and real) for their own ends.

As much as members of the NPO were also salted into the other Feeder regions with puppet nations, so were Equilism members salted among them. TNP Delegate UPS RAIL was a puppet of NPO's Sir Paul. UPS RAIL being an Anagram for Sir Paul, so he wanted to see if anyone would figure it out. TNP Delegate Great Bight was a puppet of NPO's 3rd Delegate Mammothstan, who was also prominent TWP member New People. NPO also had a couple spies in Equilism. We were aware of them and they caused no problems.

Few UCRs have had as much influence in the GCRs as Equilism.

Equilism members have served as Delegates of The Pacific, The North Pacific, The West Pacific, The East Pacific, The Rejected Realms, Balder, and Osiris. I was once 3rd in endorsements in TSP, second in endorsements in TEP, and got over 250 endorsements in The Pacific before they banjected me. That last one was a Force 10 operation. Only Westwind knows the membership of Force 10, as members are required to use a pseudonym with each other. Force 10 was founded by Westwind and Equility, with the encouragement of Ostendt to replace GLA after he said "GLA are a bunch of old women". (GLA members later said, "yeah, he's right.") Equility/Ostendt/Westwind = The three Co-founders of Equilism. And I was once offered command of Lazarus military. I think that rounds out the GCRs for Equilism.

When TSP Delegate Milograd went rogue, he told me The Crimson Order was his inspiration. Of course, he later was involved in the NPO take over of Lazarus before he committed Suicide-by-Mod.

(About four months ago, I was being asked for stories about Renegade Islands Alliance and the ADN/Ireland War. That was the only time Equilism declared war on another region. Although we declared war on inactivity during The Crimson Order.)

Westwind wrote:But the Great Wars were all so long ago!

*chuckles* I dunno, according to the NPO, FS died in RL. Or so they said until they admitted the truth otherwise years later. I still have a copy of their memorial flag for FS that was designed by Warrior Thorin. Of course, while NPO mourned his staged death, Francos Spain was actually hanging out in some small UCR with another puppet nation. Might still be around out there. I found out the truth about Francos Spain via the GLA, a couple weeks after NPO claimed he died. It remained a NS secret for some years.

Years later, NPO tried to hide the RL death of NPO Delegate/Emperor (former Equilism President) Moo-cow with Guns. NPO has a strange habit of abusing RL deaths (fake and real) for their own ends.

As much as members of the NPO were also salted into the other Feeder regions with puppet nations, so were Equilism members salted among them. TNP Delegate UPS RAIL was a puppet of NPO's Sir Paul. UPS RAIL being an Anagram for Sir Paul, so he wanted to see if anyone would figure it out. TNP Delegate Great Bight was a puppet of NPO's 3rd Delegate Mammothstan, who was also prominent TWP member New People. NPO also had a couple spies in Equilism. We were aware of them and they caused no problems.

Few UCRs have had as much influence in the GCRs as Equilism.

Equilism members have served as Delegates of The Pacific, The North Pacific, The West Pacific, The East Pacific, The Rejected Realms, Balder, and Osiris. I was once 3rd in endorsements in TSP, second in endorsements in TEP, and got over 250 endorsements in The Pacific before they banjected me. That last one was a Force 10 operation. Only Westwind knows the membership of Force 10, as members are required to use a pseudonym with each other. Force 10 was founded by Westwind and Equility, with the encouragement of Ostendt to replace GLA after he said "GLA are a bunch of old women". (GLA members later said, "yeah, he's right.") Equility/Ostendt/Westwind = The three Co-founders of Equilism. And I was once offered command of Lazarus military. I think that rounds out the GCRs for Equilism.

When TSP Delegate Milograd went rogue, he told me The Crimson Order was his inspiration. Of course, he later was involved in the NPO take over of Lazarus before he committed Suicide-by-Mod.

(About four months ago, I was being asked for stories about Renegade Islands Alliance and the ADN/Ireland War. That was the only time Equilism declared war on another region. Although we declared war on inactivity during The Crimson Order.)

I feel like this story would be best told in a room dimly lit by an active fireplace.

Alexanderian Macedonia wrote:I feel like this story would be best told in a room dimly lit by an active fireplace.

*chuckles* Campfire Tales!

Although I'm gonna leave my fireplace inactive, given it was 100F degrees here yesterday, and more of the same on the way.

Westwind wrote:Yeah, and some of those FRA types still can't get over their hate of Equilism 14 years later. Just check the thread on a proposed commendation for Equilism, and you'll find Numero Capitan still proclaiming that Equilism is evil 'because Westwind!' And I get random tg's from defenders The Gray Wardens still bragging they took Warzone Europe from us.
Defenders are seriously demented.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=482358

Elsewhere, the beloved defender Drop You Pants said I'm 'irrelevant' to NS. Nice attitude they still have, eh? Defenders are absolutely toxic, stay away from them. We made the right decision to leave defenderdom in '06, ha!

Whats this DYP slander I see?

Karkados wrote:Whats this DYP slander I see?

Slander?

100% true. I'm not going to waste my time hunting down the link for you to the forum thread where he said it.

A lot of paragraphs full of old stories, I see.

Y'all have been here too long.

Hi :D

«12. . .595596597598599»

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