Union of Allied States Board

Capital Markets wrote:

Perhaps I am not defining my terms correctly. I am referring to the sweeping movement in the democratic party and our cultural institutions to double down on dangerous "identity politics" and focus on policy that will deliver "equity" and equality of outcome based on racially defined groups. This is a dangerous philosophy and pays homage to marxist roots. This movement is the first step towards "dismantling capitalism and the capitalist mode of production". There are congressmen such as the honorable exalted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Maxine Waters, Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar, who have spoken about the "evils of capitalism" and have been extremely open about their anti-american, anti-capitalist policy agenda. The democratic party has been embracing these radical politicians.

You misunderstand and mischaracterize the conservative position on these issues. The republicans have moved much more center on these civil rights policies in the last decade. Mainstream conservatives do not wish to discriminate against the LGBTQ community. As for abortion, it is intellectually shallow to represent the pro-life argument as "forcing women to do something their body". Conservatives do not force women to do anything with their body. But abortion does involve another entity (whether you refer to a fetus or a human) and the woman's decision undeniably affects this other entity.

I wish Bernie was anti capitalist. Do you even understand these terms that you are using none of the politicians are anti capitalist in fact Bernie and AOC are capitalists and are certainly not anti capitalist. Bernie actively supports a free market and AOC supported the coup in Bolivia and the free market. Don't get me wrong I hate those politicians but none of them are anti capitalist much less any form of leftist. If you want to critique these politicians critique them for things that actually do and are don't just misdefine them as you are watering down these very real terms.

Also please explain how anything pays homage to "marxist roots" in fact marxism has never been in mainstream American politics except maybe MLK and Malcolm X who both happened to be socialist and I would argue socialism is a form of Marxian Econ.

Not only this but what is wrong with being anti capitalist or anti-american?

Greater fireland

Rosuva wrote:

I wish Bernie was anti capitalist. Do you even understand these terms that you are using none of the politicians are anti capitalist in fact Bernie and AOC are capitalists and are certainly not anti capitalist. Bernie actively supports a free market and AOC supported the coup in Bolivia and the free market. Don't get me wrong I hate those politicians but none of them are anti capitalist much less any form of leftist. If you want to critique these politicians critique them for things that actually do and are don't just misdefine them as you are watering down these very real terms.

Also please explain how anything pays homage to "marxist roots" in fact marxism has never been in mainstream American politics except maybe MLK and Malcolm X who both happened to be socialist and I would argue socialism is a form of Marxian Econ.

Not only this but what is wrong with being anti capitalist or anti-american?

Are you kidding me? All of those politicians supported the original $10 trillion dollar government takeover called the "green new deal" which is a piece of radical socialist policy. I am not "misdefining" them. I listen to interviews with these people and have the wherewithal to read between the lines of their smooth talking to understand their agenda for this country.

Marxism relies on dividing the population based on classes to identify the "oppressor" and "opressed" in order to generate equality of outcome. I specifically said "pays homage" because the modern democratic party agenda of "identity politics" seeks to divide our great country on racial lines and then design policy to create equality of outcome for all racial groups.

You can be anti capitalist and anti american, but that relies on a certain level of ignorance as to the founding philosophy of the US and the economic/social system that has produced the most free and prosperous nation in world history. Take your anti-american views and go somewhere else if you cant appreciate what this country is and has done for millions.

Zetox

Rosuva

The Republic of United Sentinel States

Edited

Capital Markets wrote:

Are you kidding me? All of those politicians supported the original $10 trillion dollar government takeover called the "green new deal" which is a piece of radical socialist policy. I am not "misdefining" them. I listen to interviews with these people and have the wherewithal to read between the lines of their smooth talking to understand their agenda for this country.

Marxism relies on dividing the population based on classes to identify the "oppressor" and "opressed" in order to generate equality of outcome. I specifically said "pays homage" because the modern democratic party agenda of "identity politics" seeks to divide our great country on racial lines and then design policy to create equality of outcome for all racial groups.

You can be anti capitalist and anti american, but that relies on a certain level of ignorance as to the founding philosophy of the US and the economic/social system that has produced the most free and prosperous nation in world history. Take your anti-american views and go somewhere else if you cant appreciate what this country is and has done for millions.

You did the meme.

Socialism is not "when the government does stuff" and the green new deal is in no way a "radical socialist policy". Socialism is the establishment of a transitionary state in which a democratic government succeeds distributing means of production, distribution, and exchange in between the overthrow of capitalism and the establishment of communism. In fact Marx used both communism and socialism interchangeably and marxist philosophers have argued for so many years what socialism really is. Please explain how a green new deal does any of that?

In what way does Marxism rely on dividing the population based on class can you substantiate that.

I will add on by saying I am not a socialist nor a leftist.

Greater fireland

Popcorn get your popcorn here!
Hot food and a drink of your choice only 3 bucks!
🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

The British Imperial, North americas1, Greater fireland, and New shizal

The United Kingdom of The British Imperial

Rosuva wrote:

You did the meme.

Socialism is not "when the government does stuff" and the green new deal is in no way a "radical socialist policy". Socialism is the establishment of a transitionary state in which a democratic government succeeds distributing means of production, distribution, and exchange in between the overthrow of capitalism and the establishment of communism. In fact Marx used both communism and socialism interchangeably and marxist philosophers have argued for so many years what socialism really is. Please explain how a green new deal does any of that?

In what way does Marxism rely on dividing the population based on class can you substantiate that.

I will add on by saying I am not a socialist nor a leftist.

"Marx inherited the ideas of class and class struggle from utopian socialism and the theories of Henri de Saint-Simon. These had been given substance by the writings of French historians such as Adolphe Thiers and François Guizot on the French Revolution of 1789. But unlike the French historians, Marx made class struggle the central fact of social evolution. “The history of all hitherto existing human society is the history of class struggles.

In Marx’s view, the dialectical nature of history is expressed in class struggle. With the development of capitalism, the class struggle takes an acute form. Two basic classes, around which other less important classes are grouped, oppose each other in the capitalist system: the owners of the means of production, or bourgeoisie, and the workers, or proletariat. “The bourgeoisie produces its own grave-diggers. The fall of the bourgeoisie and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable” (The Communist Manifesto) because when people have become aware of their loss, of their alienation, as a universal nonhuman situation, it will be possible for them to proceed to a radical transformation of their situation by a revolution. This revolution will be the prelude to the establishment of communism and the reign of liberty reconquered. “In the place of the old bourgeois society with its classes and its class antagonisms, there will be an association in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.”

From that it is obvious that class separations are necessary to identify before transitioning the society to the end goal of socialism

Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Marxism/Class-struggle

Zetox, Rosuva, Greater fireland, and Staine

The Republic of United Sentinel States

United Sentinel States wrote:

Popcorn get your popcorn here!
Hot food and a drink of your choice only 3 bucks!
🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

business is boomin'

United Sentinel States and Greater fireland

The British Imperial wrote:

business is boomin'

We're back lad

The British Imperial

Rosuva

Capital Markets wrote:

"Marx inherited the ideas of class and class struggle from utopian socialism and the theories of Henri de Saint-Simon. These had been given substance by the writings of French historians such as Adolphe Thiers and François Guizot on the French Revolution of 1789. But unlike the French historians, Marx made class struggle the central fact of social evolution. “The history of all hitherto existing human society is the history of class struggles.

In Marx’s view, the dialectical nature of history is expressed in class struggle. With the development of capitalism, the class struggle takes an acute form. Two basic classes, around which other less important classes are grouped, oppose each other in the capitalist system: the owners of the means of production, or bourgeoisie, and the workers, or proletariat. “The bourgeoisie produces its own grave-diggers. The fall of the bourgeoisie and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable” (The Communist Manifesto) because when people have become aware of their loss, of their alienation, as a universal nonhuman situation, it will be possible for them to proceed to a radical transformation of their situation by a revolution. This revolution will be the prelude to the establishment of communism and the reign of liberty reconquered. “In the place of the old bourgeois society with its classes and its class antagonisms, there will be an association in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.”

From that it is obvious that class separations are necessary to identify before transitioning the society to the end goal of socialism

Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Marxism/Class-struggle

You still have yet to explain how the green new deal is socialist

Greater fireland and Staine

North americas1

Edited

Capital Markets wrote:

You misunderstand and mischaracterize the conservative position on these issues. The republicans have moved much more center on these civil rights policies in the last decade. Mainstream conservatives do not wish to discriminate against the LGBTQ community. As for abortion, it is intellectually shallow to represent the pro-life argument as "forcing women to do something their body". Conservatives do not force women to do anything with their body. But abortion does involve another entity (whether you refer to a fetus or a human) and the woman's decision undeniably affects this other entity.

So do conservatives. All the time I keep hearing conservatives calling liberals and progressives marxists, socialists, and communists.

Also, if they are not discriminating against the LGBTQ+ community, why haven't they supported the Equality Act. Only 3 House Republicans voted in favor of it. Is the disgraceful Majorie Green a 'mainstream conservative? Because she hanged a damn poster saying 'There are only two genders: Male and Female, Trust the Science.' Out of topic, since when did she trust the science.

If "conservatives" enjoy their freedoms, then why should you care about what happens to the other entity. It isn't yours, it is hers. If she decides to terminate her pregnancy, then it her choice not yours. Don't judge. Ignore. Plain and simple.

Greater fireland

The Collective of Korovan

North americas1 wrote:

So do conservatives. All the time I keep hearing conservatives calling liberals and progressives marxists, socialists, and communists.

Also, if they are not discriminating against the LGBTQ+ community, why haven't they supported the Equality Act. Only 3 House Republicans voted in favor of it. Is the disgraceful Majorie Green a 'mainstream conservative? Because she hanged a damn poster saying 'There are only two genders: Male and Female, Trust the Science.' Out of topic, since when did she trust the science.

If "conservatives" enjoy their freedoms, then why should you care about what happens to the other entity. It isn't yours, it is hers. If she decides to terminate her pregnancy, then it her choice not yours. Don't judge. Ignore. Plain and simple.

In the interest of finding common ground, I'll concede that there is "strawmaning" propagated by both sides

You can't just imply that not supporting the Equality Act means that conservatives are actively discriminating against LGBTQ. Although I believe that the legislation is well-intentioned, there are some aspects of the proposal that would actual reduce personal and religious freedom for some:

The Equality Act would force employers to pay for sex “reassignment” procedures in their health insurance plans, and require medical professionals to perform them.
The Equality Act would force all schools and businesses to open their women’s bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, and sports teams to boys who identify as girls and to men who identify as women.
The Equality Act could be used to force the military to pay for “reassignment” procedures and force the military to accept transgender recruits who are not combat-ready.
The Equality Act would force faith-based adoption agencies to either violate their conviction that every child deserves both a mother and a father or to stop serving children in need altogether.
The Equality Act would force a variety of small business owners to violate their beliefs about marriage, sexuality, and gender.

It is obvious that some conservatives (myself not included) hold religious beliefs that are incongruent with LGBTQ . Just because they might have these beliefs does not mean that they will actively seek to hurt or interfere with LGBTQ people, and many of these conservatives do "ignore" LGBTQ in daily life, until something interferes with their own freedom. This issue here is that The Act would force religious people to act against their faith or use public taxpayer dollars to fund practices that are prohibited by their religious beliefs.

No lol, MTG is not a mainstream conservative and her kooky beliefs were condemned by house minority leader McCarthy. As a Jewish person, I found here comments about space lasers funny but also very ignorant and misguided.

As for your point on abortion, it really comes down to how people define a human life, a topic in which there is no objective consensus. Thus a debate on this issue where the fundamental premise cannot be agreed upon with just go ad infinitum. But I will counter your point about it being "her entity"...If I believe that the "entity" is indeed a human life/a child, then we can extend your logic a bit further and say "if someone has a 6 month old child, then why should you care about what happens to the child?. It isn't yours, it is hers. If she decides to kill her child, then it her choice not yours". Obviously you will come back and say that the comparison is not the same which is why the abortion debate is pointless unless people can agree on when a human life starts.

Zetox

Walks into walls of text and popcorn everywhere. Can I get some tl:dr please lol.

Rosuva

The United Kingdom of The British Imperial

Korovan wrote:

Walks into walls of text and popcorn everywhere. Can I get some tl:dr please lol.

My only issue here is that Capital Markets thinks the democrats are "socialists" and "radical"

North americas1 and Greater fireland

Edited

Korovan wrote:

Walks into walls of text and popcorn everywhere. Can I get some tl:dr please lol.

Red Elephant Bad
Blue Donkey Bad

Leria, Rosuva, and Greater fireland

North americas1

Capital Markets wrote:

In the interest of finding common ground, I'll concede that there is "strawmaning" propagated by both sides

You can't just imply that not supporting the Equality Act means that conservatives are actively discriminating against LGBTQ. Although I believe that the legislation is well-intentioned, there are some aspects of the proposal that would actual reduce personal and religious freedom for some:

The Equality Act would force employers to pay for sex “reassignment” procedures in their health insurance plans, and require medical professionals to perform them.
The Equality Act would force all schools and businesses to open their women’s bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, and sports teams to boys who identify as girls and to men who identify as women.
The Equality Act could be used to force the military to pay for “reassignment” procedures and force the military to accept transgender recruits who are not combat-ready.
The Equality Act would force faith-based adoption agencies to either violate their conviction that every child deserves both a mother and a father or to stop serving children in need altogether.
The Equality Act would force a variety of small business owners to violate their beliefs about marriage, sexuality, and gender.

It is obvious that some conservatives (myself not included) hold religious beliefs that are incongruent with LGBTQ . Just because they might have these beliefs does not mean that they will actively seek to hurt or interfere with LGBTQ people, and many of these conservatives do "ignore" LGBTQ in daily life, until something interferes with their own freedom. This issue here is that The Act would force religious people to act against their faith or use public taxpayer dollars to fund practices that are prohibited by their religious beliefs.

No lol, MTG is not a mainstream conservative and her kooky beliefs were condemned by house minority leader McCarthy. As a Jewish person, I found here comments about space lasers funny but also very ignorant and misguided.

As for your point on abortion, it really comes down to how people define a human life, a topic in which there is no objective consensus. Thus a debate on this issue where the fundamental premise cannot be agreed upon with just go ad infinitum. But I will counter your point about it being "her entity"...If I believe that the "entity" is indeed a human life/a child, then we can extend your logic a bit further and say "if someone has a 6 month old child, then why should you care about what happens to the child?. It isn't yours, it is hers. If she decides to kill her child, then it her choice not yours". Obviously you will come back and say that the comparison is not the same which is why the abortion debate is pointless unless people can agree on when a human life starts.

I think at the end of the day we both will have different views and not one of us will be swayed by the other, so I suppose this petty argument has ended. Oh and by the way, my sincere apologies to the popcorn industry in the U.A.S.

Greater fireland

North americas1 wrote:

I think at the end of the day we both will have different views and not one of us will be swayed by the other, so I suppose this petty argument has ended. Oh and by the way, my sincere apologies to the popcorn industry in the U.A.S.

I have been swayed before and I am always open to convincing arguments to change my mind.

I don't view discourse on important issues to be "petty"

Rosuva

The British Imperial wrote:

Red Elephant Bad
Blue Donkey Bad

everyone bad

Greater fireland

North americas1

The Collective of Korovan

Capital Markets wrote:

I have been swayed before and I am always open to convincing arguments to change my mind.

I don't view discourse on important issues to be "petty"

Well, I don't think I sounded quite convincing, nor am I an exceptional persuader.

You misunderstood me; does are very important issues. I meant that our argument wouldn't have ended and continued on, infinently. It would of sounded more like the first 2020 Presidential debate.

Capital Markets

The British Imperial wrote:

Red Elephant Bad
Blue Donkey Bad

Pink Elephants are the way to go then

Rosuva and Greater fireland

Nimbys

3 years 58 days ago

Edited

Korovan wrote:

Pink Elephants are the way to go then

or #faa61a libby birds ;)

Greater fireland

The Empire of Gradanon

3 years 58 days ago

Oh god, I thought AI was going to help my economy...now I'm a Psychotic Dictatorship....HELP!

Cappedore, North americas1, and Greater fireland

North americas1 wrote:

I believe it is both sides. Liberals, socialists, communists are not the only ones who cause problems. Social conservative polices always infringe upon peoples' human rights. I mean, if you don't want an abortion then don't have one; let women control their own body. If you don't like people blasting music with obscene lyrics, then don't listen to it. If you don't want to smoke marijuana, then don't smoke it. If you are against the LGBTQ community, fine, no one gives a damn; let them live their lives. We are all children of God. If women wear pants and suits and men wear dresses and makeup and you don't like it, then don't do it, ignore their lifestyle. Overall, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS

We need conservatism! We need to protect culture and traditions!

New solisia wrote:

Official Little Statement Of Mine, 2/24

This region was the start of countless relationships and opportunities. It has brought me through so many places and into so many things, I would have never imagined two years ago. Thank you to

United Osean Federation for trying to form an inclusive rp even if I was not often active, and thank you to

South Waterford for founding what was once a vibrant, growing community. I am leaving this message here because I think I've finally found what I have wanted. NS for me has become a toxic region where many people get stressed, rage quit, and repeat, and I'm not excluded from that. Everything is in the same exact cycle and there just aren't enough good people here anymore. I am going to be honest and say, the place is crumbling. People have taken regional politics too seriously and instead of being a place of fun banter and interesting debate, it has become that of court cases, constitutional crisis, and scandals. I would like to believe everyone here deserves better than that.

I have found a community much like what this place once was, that was really about the people and not some fragmented place, where I can really get to know everybody and where I feel I fit in. Coming here, I feel like an a*shole knowing how many felt about me, and knowing full and well I am not the most rounded and most mature. I don't want to stay any longer. Thanks to New shizal, Cappedore, and Greater fireland I have found a vibrant boiling-pot community,a wonderful relationship, and a loyal friend. I am grateful to everyone here, even the ones I didn't agree with, because this region shaped years of my life, but I want to move on.

I hereby am leaving NationStates, and the UAS for good. This isn't a rage quit, this isn't a grounding, and this isn't a false alarm. I have made a decision, and before I think too hard about it, I am leaving. I will also be leaving the UAS Discord, but as many of you already know, I have found other servers with the same members here, and I am also open in my DMs on Discord as well. Thank you all for the opportunity, but I myself don't think the joy I once experienced here is worth trying to save.

A special mention to some of the greatest people here
Chokoku
Cappedore
New shizal
Greater fireland
Staine
United Osean Federation
United Sentinel States (For helping me learn I am not invincible 0-0)
South Waterford
Zetox
Rosuva
The civitas islands

And many more...
And sorry for the ping XD

New solisia

Gazoo is sad to see you decided to leave! Gazoo wishes you the best!

Long Live New solisia!
Long Live the Union!

Chokoku, North americas1, and Greater fireland

Capital Markets wrote:

This is a joke. It's obvious to anyone with a brain stem that our country and it's cultural institutions have been taken over by leftism, which carries the opposite mentality of "mind your own business"...more like "agree with us or be destroyed"

Exactly!!!

Rosuva wrote:

If only the US was leftist but one can dream

US will never be leftist!!

Capital Markets wrote:

Perhaps I am not defining my terms correctly. I am referring to the sweeping movement in the democratic party and our cultural institutions to double down on dangerous "identity politics" and focus on policy that will deliver "equity" and equality of outcome based on racially defined groups. This is a dangerous philosophy and pays homage to marxist roots. This movement is the first step towards "dismantling capitalism and the capitalist mode of production". There are congressmen such as the honorable exalted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Maxine Waters, Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar, who have spoken about the "evils of capitalism" and have been extremely open about their anti-american, anti-capitalist policy agenda. The democratic party has been embracing these radical politicians.

You misunderstand and mischaracterize the conservative position on these issues. The republicans have moved much more center on these civil rights policies in the last decade. Mainstream conservatives do not wish to discriminate against the LGBTQ community. As for abortion, it is intellectually shallow to represent the pro-life argument as "forcing women to do something their body". Conservatives do not force women to do anything with their body. But abortion does involve another entity (whether you refer to a fetus or a human) and the woman's decision undeniably affects this other entity.

Capitalism is needed! It beat Socialism and communism during the Cold War!

Rosuva wrote:

I wish Bernie was anti capitalist. Do you even understand these terms that you are using none of the politicians are anti capitalist in fact Bernie and AOC are capitalists and are certainly not anti capitalist. Bernie actively supports a free market and AOC supported the coup in Bolivia and the free market. Don't get me wrong I hate those politicians but none of them are anti capitalist much less any form of leftist. If you want to critique these politicians critique them for things that actually do and are don't just misdefine them as you are watering down these very real terms.

Also please explain how anything pays homage to "marxist roots" in fact marxism has never been in mainstream American politics except maybe MLK and Malcolm X who both happened to be socialist and I would argue socialism is a form of Marxian Econ.

Not only this but what is wrong with being anti capitalist or anti-american?

Bernie is a socialist!

Capital Markets wrote:

Are you kidding me? All of those politicians supported the original $10 trillion dollar government takeover called the "green new deal" which is a piece of radical socialist policy. I am not "misdefining" them. I listen to interviews with these people and have the wherewithal to read between the lines of their smooth talking to understand their agenda for this country.

Marxism relies on dividing the population based on classes to identify the "oppressor" and "opressed" in order to generate equality of outcome. I specifically said "pays homage" because the modern democratic party agenda of "identity politics" seeks to divide our great country on racial lines and then design policy to create equality of outcome for all racial groups.

You can be anti capitalist and anti american, but that relies on a certain level of ignorance as to the founding philosophy of the US and the economic/social system that has produced the most free and prosperous nation in world history. Take your anti-american views and go somewhere else if you cant appreciate what this country is and has done for millions.

New Green Deal is going to failed! It green energy failed last week! Look at Texas Winter Event

Rosuva wrote:

My only issue here is that

Capital Markets thinks the democrats are "socialists" and "radical"

there are a lot of democrats that are socialist and radical!