Forest Board

Suppressed your post Turbeaux, since it looks like you accidentally may have included part of your personal information visibly in it from a copy/paste. Feel free to edit and unsuppress!

Lord Dominator and Turbeaux

Salvezia

Edited

I think most of population lacks of education... internet is a weapon if bad used, like a car, i think child have to be instructed before could freely acces to internet, as in my opinion you coulnd’t read mein Kampf or other controversial book without solid historycal basis

Love and Nature, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and Elundris

Salvezia wrote:

I think most of population lacks of education... internet is a weapon if bad used, like a car, i think child have to be instructed before could freely acces to internet, as in my opinion you coulnd’t read mein Kampf or other controversial book without solid historycal basis

There should definitely be more teaching regarding the dangers of social media and the necessity of fact-checking any information found on it before believing it and spreading it. Also, it is a shame that curiosity cannot be taught.

Love and Nature, Lord Dominator, Kinectia, Sean fiobha, and 1 otherSalvezia

Salvezia

Edited

Turbeaux wrote:

There should definitely be more teaching regarding the dangers of social media and the necessity of fact-checking any information found on it before believing it and spreading it. Also, it is a shame that curiosity cannot be taught.

I disegree on that, i think curiosity actually can be taught, althougt the (genetical?) basis is important... i always esort my children to ask how something work or Why someone behave in a certain way; i hope this will be useful in their future...

Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Kinectia, and Wernher Magnus Maximilian Von Braun

The Protectorate of The Minder

Edited

Kinectia wrote:

I keep wishing someone would reignite the lost art of making paper using fast-growing plants. It’s the electronic printers that require absolutely uniform wood paste from new healthy trees, augmented with clay for extra smoothness. I’m hoping to get an Issue about banning printers in my nation.

You should write it. Though it probably ought to be phrased in a way other than banning stuff. Maybe taxing wood-paste based paper to subsidise one made from papyrus equivalents.

I admit I don't know much about it though. Per sheet, is papyrus more environmentally friendly than wood-paste paper? I'm thinking that it's a lot heavier, so you're using more grams of plant fibre per sheet, so that might counteract the speed of growth.

This site seems like a decent starting point for info:
https://www.pgpaper.com/eco-friendly-paper-products/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagasse

Verdant Haven, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Kinectia, and 2 othersWernher Magnus Maximilian Von Braun, and Sean fiobha

Sure, but a single book is only a fraction of that creation. As long as the text survives somewhere it can be replaced. Plus, honestly, we now live in an age of data abundance and disposability. Its only a small tragedy if someone's facebook page is deleted with no trace. It's only a moderate tragedy if a notable person's twitter feed is purged with no backups taken. It's only a slightly larger tragedy if some hack's low quality fantasy trilogy is lost forever.

For a book to be destroyed in its entirety with every copy purged and the author executed, that's probably always a tragedy, but not necessarily a huge one. It depends on the book, its notability and its importance. Purge the Bible or Das Kapital from the world, and that's a big crime against freedom of expression. Every book is important, sure, but some are more important than others.

But for a single book to be destroyed, its such a small thing. Still a bad thing, of course. Except possibly for Dan Brown novels. Given the choice between burning down a library and letting a baby die, I choose burning down a library.

I treat each and every book as if it was the last copy left on earth. Given the choice of reading Isaac Asimov on line or in a book, I will choose the book every time. Your statement about importance reminds me of Orwell..."All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others", which take us down the slippery slope of just who determines importance.

Long-term capital gains wrote:

No offense or anything, but speaking as a circulation manager...a book is a pile of sheets of paper. The content of a lot of which is a pile of nonsense.

Book burning is vile because of the essential claim it entails: that the initiation violence is a legitimate means of settling disagreements. Much as it pains my soul to repair and reshelve, say, a copy of Ann Coulter, we do it because we reject that notion. And rejecting that notion, I think, is really what people gave their lives for.

But it's not for a dusty mouldy old book, which is just a thing, not some magical talisman. "As precious as life itself" is a bit strong.

Besides which, weeding/"recycling" entails an undeniable catharsis.

There's all kinds of new trolly problems here. On one track, a baby. On the other, an Brodart delivery truck. You have one match...

No offense taken. What you say is true; would you say that a Barbara Cartland novel was worth the paper that it is printed on or just so much rubbish. It all depends on the individual's point of view. There are countless numbers of people who cherish and revel in her writing as she managed to publish 700+ novels in her career. To deny those people her writings would be tantamount to the suppression of thought. Just saying.

Verdant Haven, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Kinectia, and 1 otherWernher Magnus Maximilian Von Braun

Myordas

This article shows cichlids are the most broken fish species in the game.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-13278-z

Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Sean fiobha, and I here to look

Salvezia wrote:

I disegree on that, i think curiosity actually can be taught, althougt the (genetical?) basis is important... i always esort my children to ask how something work or Why someone behave in a certain way; i hope this will be useful in their future...

Apologies, I meant that it cannot be taught as a school topic. If a child with certain genetics is raised in a certain way with intelligent parenting it can definitely be instilled. That combination of factors seems incredibly rare though!

(It would be "genetic", "genetical" is not a word.)

Lord Dominator, Kinectia, Wernher Magnus Maximilian Von Braun, Sean fiobha, and 2 othersSalvezia, and I here to look

I would have said that curiosity can definitely be taught by schools, either by presenting children with environments and challenges that stimulate their natural sense of wonder, or by directly teaching the value of this virtue, or -- when older -- teaching the scientific method.

Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, The void territories, Kinectia, and 2 othersWernher Magnus Maximilian Von Braun, and I here to look

I would have said that curiosity can definitely be taught by schools, either by presenting children with environments and challenges that stimulate their natural sense of wonder, or by directly teaching the value of this virtue, or -- when older -- teaching the scientific method.

However, many children have absolutely no sense of wonder. If Jane is raised in a home where she is never taken outside and her parents are consistently too intoxicated to answer questions, she will never develop that sense of wonder. Schools can definitely reinforce curiosity if it exists first!

Lord Dominator, Kinectia, and I here to look

Edited

Turbeaux wrote:

However, many children have absolutely no sense of wonder. If Jane is raised in a home where she is never taken outside and her parents are consistently too intoxicated to answer questions, she will never develop that sense of wonder. Schools can definitely reinforce curiosity if it exists first!

I get what you're saying, and definitely neglect in early life can cause real long term emotional and intellectual damage.

However evidence suggests that neurological plasticity persists even into adulthood, and that the brain architecture changes that are inflicted by neglect can be reversed over time. So I think we mustn't buy into the idea that anyone is ever broken beyond repair. Even if parents have completely failed to instil a sense of curiosity (or indeed empathy, socialisation, normal behaviour, security, or all those other things that good parenting puts in place) there is always the potential for making things better, no matter how late you get to someone.

That's not just a general belief in human potential either -- there's good evidence that this is the case.

A quick guide on management approaches adopted in the UK's NHS is here:

https://www.nice.org.uk/about/nice-communities/social-care/quick-guides-for-social-care/therapeutic-interventions-after-abuse-and-neglect

I'd also add from a personal point of view that school can absolutely teach you things that family never does. My family was hardly abusive (well, I was smacked a bit, but not regularly and not maliciously) but it was highly toxic in a lot of its attitudes, most notably with my early years having a repeated message hammered in that only family count as real people, and that you can do anything you like to the rest of the world as long as you're good to family. It was school that taught me actual moral values, and a sense of societal responsibility.

Verdant Haven, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 4 othersKinectia, Wernher Magnus Maximilian Von Braun, Salvezia, and I here to look

Kinectia

Edited

The People's Republic of Bananaistan

You should write it. Though it probably ought to be phrased in a way other than banning stuff. Maybe taxing wood-paste based paper to subsidise one made from papyrus equivalents.

I admit I don't know much about it though. Per sheet, is papyrus more environmentally friendly than wood-paste paper? I'm thinking that it's a lot heavier, so you're using more grams of plant fibre per sheet, so that might counteract the speed of growth.

This site seems like a decent starting point for info:
https://www.pgpaper.com/eco-friendly-paper-products/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagasse

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll work on a preliminary draft for an Issue around this, and take it to the appropriate channels for more advice on the structure and content. I've done a lot of paper-making by hand, just as a personal hobby, so I have some knowledge about it, and I'm happy to learn more - I'll check out your links. I haven't personally made paper directly from plants because it involves lye and other toxic substances, but I have purchased and used stationery made from everything from mulberry plants to elephant dung, so I know a lot of viable alternatives exist. The processes I've used in making paper involved recycling used papers, and that's how I know a food carton may look like paper, but it's mostly glue and plastic, and construction paper is basically just dust and dye.

Turbeaux wrote:

However, many children have absolutely no sense of wonder. If Jane is raised in a home where she is never taken outside and her parents are consistently too intoxicated to answer questions, she will never develop that sense of wonder. Schools can definitely reinforce curiosity if it exists first!

I've never met a child that didn't have innate curiosity. Both home environment and school can destroy it, but I think it's always there in the beginning.

Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and I here to look

The Mercurial World of Isbjorn Maerenne Bava Paerani

Should we vote yes or no on this SC at vote resolution? Both TNP and 10000 islands are respectable regions, and have lobbied via TG on either side.

Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Kinectia, and Sean fiobha

I vote against. Raiding bad.

Sacara, Mount Seymour, Love and Nature, Lord Dominator, and 3 othersTurbeaux, Kinectia, and Sean fiobha

The United Mangrove Archipelago of Ransium

I get what you're saying, and definitely neglect in early life can cause real long term emotional and intellectual damage.

However evidence suggests that neurological plasticity persists even into adulthood, and that the brain architecture changes that are inflicted by neglect can be reversed over time. So I think we mustn't buy into the idea that anyone is ever broken beyond repair. Even if parents have completely failed to instil a sense of curiosity (or indeed empathy, socialisation, normal behaviour, security, or all those other things that good parenting puts in place) there is always the potential for making things better, no matter how late you get to someone.

That's not just a general belief in human potential either -- there's good evidence that this is the case.

A quick guide on management approaches adopted in the UK's NHS is here:

https://www.nice.org.uk/about/nice-communities/social-care/quick-guides-for-social-care/therapeutic-interventions-after-abuse-and-neglect

I'd also add from a personal point of view that school can absolutely teach you things that family never does. My family was hardly abusive (well, I was smacked a bit, but not regularly and not maliciously) but it was highly toxic in a lot of its attitudes, most notably with my early years having a repeated message hammered in that only family count as real people, and that you can do anything you like to the rest of the world as long as you're good to family. It was school that taught me actual moral values, and a sense of societal responsibility.

I appreciate your optimism and agree with your sentiments and conclusions.

I suppose that my example was a specific exception rather than a rule.

However, US-style Christianity can disrupt curiosity. If a child asks questions at home and is always answered with some variation of "because God" it definitely tampers down curiosity. We have a lot of crazy fundies here in the US who engage in that sort of parenting. Also, religious influence limits the ability of women to get abortions and access to birth control so many couples that would not otherwise have children are having them. Many parents who home school their children (or ship them off to intensely religious schools) to shelter them from the "evil secularism" in mainline schools intentionally isolate them from new and different points of view and can severely disrupt curiosity by engaging in such behavior.

I have family who home schools their children (my cousins) partially in order to them from secularism. Their mother used to be an elementary school teacher at a public school, so she knows what she is doing to an extent. However, she is a very serious young Earth creationist so I am inclined to believe that these cousins may not be receiving the best foundations regarding biology. I am impressed that a couple of my cousins are developing healthy senses of wonder in spite of this.

All of this being stated, there are legions of religious people who raise curious children and do not try to force their beliefs on others.

Take all of this with a large grain of salt because I am not a parent and have no desire to become one!

Bananaistan wrote:

Should we vote yes or no on this SC at vote resolution? Both TNP and 10000 islands are respectable regions, and have lobbied via TG on either side.

When in doubt, I vote as Ransium does. Which is "against" in this case. Perhaps he can elaborate.

Bananaistan, Love and Nature, Lord Dominator, Kinectia, and 2 othersLousykitty, and Sean fiobha

Edited

While I’ve written my own resolutions twisting what should be commended/condemned in the past, I don’t think commending raiders for raiding is for the best. I don’t see why they did it either, condemnation badges are so much cooler looking.

Also, by the time I had a chance to vote, Forest was leaning heavily against. I don’t like to vote in opposition to heavy majorities in Forest without good reason.

Sacara, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 2 othersKinectia, and Sean fiobha

Kinectia

The Rewilding of Ruinenlust

Edited

Turbeaux wrote:

...
I have family who home schools their children (my cousins) partially in order to them from secularism. Their mother used to be an elementary school teacher at a public school, so she knows what she is doing to an extent. However, she is a very serious young Earth creationist so I am inclined to believe that these cousins may not be receiving the best foundations regarding biology. I am impressed that a couple of my cousins are developing healthy senses of wonder in spite of this.

I also decided to home-school my kid after 2nd grade, primarily because I objected to the kids being required to sit still indoors all day, and to do homework every night that was just repetitive drills of a long worn-out curriculum. Home schooling is not uncommon in Colorado, and there are "homeschool supplemental programs" available, operated privately or through charter schools. My kid took classes a couple of times a week in science, music, theater and art. The rest of the time we spent in the forest, or going to museums, playing games, reading, researching, traveling and cooking. I know that's not the kind you were talking about, but I wanted to point out there are other kinds.

Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and Sean fiobha

Official Government Post

Hello friends!

We have another potential embassy poll to vote on! The new embassy request comes from The Union of Democratic States. I have received the following telegram from The Little Ant on my Computer of The Noble Thatcherites, their Prime Minister:

"Good Evening,

I hope all is well. I am the Prime Minister of The Union of Democratic States. Per your "Read Before Requesting Embassies with Forest" dispatch, I wanted to request to have embassies constructed between The Union of Democratic States and Forest. The Union has 69 WA Nations and celebrated it's fourth birthday on December 18th. The Union is a democratic region dedicated to the ideals of freedom, justice, and security for all nations. The Union has a very active population at a growing 250+ nations and the community is tightly knit but very diverse in ideology and background. All nations are welcome to join the Union of Democratic States, and contribute to and advance the growth of this up-and-coming world power. I believe that embassies should be constructed between the Union and Forest because the Union has a strong prior relationship with Forest. Everyone in the UDS fondly remembers working with Forest in the Canopy faction last N-Day. I hope that the citizens of Forest consider this request. :D

Sincerely,
The Noble Thatcherites
Prime Minister"

---

As always, everyone is encouraged to have a discussion, vote in the poll, and to take a look at The Union of Democratic States. Also, if anyone is interested in becoming ambassador to this or to any available region, please let me know!

All my best! I have been a bit busier than usual IRL, but I have been trying to come on and to be present.
The Rewilding of Ruinenlust :-)

Verdant Haven, The Minder, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 2 othersKinectia, and Sean fiobha

The Pacific Alpine Commonwealth of Mount Seymour

On the topic of embassy requests, I was thoroughly unimpressed by the NWE. Their government situation seems far less than ideal.

Kinectia, that sounds neat! I applaud you!

Verdant Haven, Lord Dominator, and Kinectia

Edited

I've had some history (a few years ago) working with UDS, so I may have to abstain from this vote. They're a fairly standard regional government and broad-focus region with a similar size to Forest. My interactions have largely been positive, and we worked with them quite well during this past N-Day as part of Canopy together (the previous year, they had been another high-ranked group faction), though there isn't really much unique connection to the environment to speak of.

Verdant Haven, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and Kinectia

Sacara

Absolutely vote no on this WA resolution. Why would we want to commend a raider?

Verdant Haven, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 1 otherKinectia

Uds envoy to forest

Edited 4 years 106 days ago

Ruinenlust wrote:

Official Government Post

Hello friends!

We have another potential embassy poll to vote on! The new embassy request comes from The Union of Democratic States. I have received the following telegram from The Little Ant on my Computer of The Noble Thatcherites, their Prime Minister:

"Good Evening,

I hope all is well. I am the Prime Minister of The Union of Democratic States. Per your "Read Before Requesting Embassies with Forest" dispatch, I wanted to request to have embassies constructed between The Union of Democratic States and Forest. The Union has 69 WA Nations and celebrated it's fourth birthday on December 18th. The Union is a democratic region dedicated to the ideals of freedom, justice, and security for all nations. The Union has a very active population at a growing 250+ nations and the community is tightly knit but very diverse in ideology and background. All nations are welcome to join the Union of Democratic States, and contribute to and advance the growth of this up-and-coming world power. I believe that embassies should be constructed between the Union and Forest because the Union has a strong prior relationship with Forest. Everyone in the UDS fondly remembers working with Forest in the Canopy faction last N-Day. I hope that the citizens of Forest consider this request. :D

Sincerely,
The Noble Thatcherites
Prime Minister"

---

As always, everyone is encouraged to have a discussion, vote in the poll, and to take a look at The Union of Democratic States. Also, if anyone is interested in becoming ambassador to this or to any available region, please let me know!

All my best! I have been a bit busier than usual IRL, but I have been trying to come on and to be present.
The Rewilding of Ruinenlust :-)

Thank you for the introduction, Ruinenlust! I am so thankful that you have taken the time out of your busy RL routine to consider the request I filed, put up the embassy proposal vote, and post my statement to the RMB.

Mount Seymour wrote:

I've had some history (a few years ago) working with UDS, so I may have to abstain from this vote. They're a fairly standard regional government and broad-focus region with a similar size to Forest. My interactions have largely been positive, and we worked with them quite well during this past N-Day as part of Canopy together (the previous year, they had been another high-ranked group faction), though there isn't really much unique connection to the environment to speak of.

Thank you for those remarks, Mount Seymour. Unlike other regions, The Union of Democratic States does not promote a central theme, except perhaps democracy, however, we do have many members who are passionate about the state of the environment. I took Advanced Placement Environmental Science last year and it changed my perspective on utilizing science, the environment, and the human impact on the environment. I have since become passionate about preserving the environment and reducing my personal impact on the environment. Additionally, I have had the opportunity to intimately experience nature through activities such as hiking. I wrote half of my college essay concerning the environment and I plan to study law so that I may become either a constitutional or environmental attorney. Outside of environmental issues, the Union is filled with members who are passionate about a whole host of political issues. :D

If any members of Forest have any questions concerning the Union of Democratic States I should be available over the next few days, via this proxy, to address them. Thank you again for considering this request.

Sincerely,
The Noble Thatcherites
Prime Minister

Verdant Haven, Mount Seymour, The Minder, Lord Dominator, and 2 othersTurbeaux, and Kinectia

Kinectia

4 years 106 days ago

Ruinenlust wrote:

Official Government Post
Hello friends! We have another potential embassy poll to vote on! The new embassy request comes from The Union of Democratic States. I have received the following telegram from The Little Ant on my Computer of The Noble Thatcherites, their Prime Minister:
... (see original post)...
As always, everyone is encouraged to have a discussion, vote in the poll, and to take a look at The Union of Democratic States. Also, if anyone is interested in becoming ambassador to this or to any available region, please let me know!

I looked through The Union of Democratic States and found I have a couple of concerns about opening an embassy with them:
1) their RMB (as far back as I had patience to read) is almost all one-liners with little meaning.
2) the nations recently posting on the RMB and those in government have no real demonstrated interest in the environment, as far as I could see. I read through each nation's posts, factbooks, rankings and policies, as well as the info available on the region's main page.

These are both issues we discussed with regard to the last embassy request, which was declined, so it seems worth bringing up in the interest of being fair to them. Maybe there's more substance and environmental discussion on their Discord - which we don't generally use here, so I didn't check. If we are going to use these criteria for evaluation of embassy requests we should really be consistent about it, and maybe also consider mentioning that in our main page along with our other guidelines about applying for embassies.

Aside from that, The Noble Thatcherites has made a good case and been responsive, and I commend them for their personal interest in environmental protection. The region seems to be well-established and stable, with active government members and reasonable policies. I didn't see anything that alarmed me in any of their material - I just didn't see anything that impressed me, for this purpose. I don't want to vote against this unless we have some agreement on using the above criteria consistently, but I can't really find any reason to vote for it.

Verdant Haven, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 1 otherSean fiobha