PhilosophersBoard

Telgan wrote:

An interesting idea. Are you advising that a general qualitative approach is mores suited to study human than quantitative?

Discuss, with reference to philosophy approaches.

To my mind, both are well adapted, and would be highly dependent on the question at hand. I don't actually have a preference, unless the preference is certain questions which would be geared towards a certain approach. One method would be useless to say study the incidence rate of human elder abuse in a care home setting (clearly this is quan), or the compliance rate of instruction of mask wearing rates (again quan) relative to say rationale of elder abuse from a perspective of 20-29 year olds (qual) or fear reposne to messaging on covid compliance (likely both qualitative and quan).

Some methods and philosophy underpinnings of this however is sadly missed. My heart drops when hard science freaks don't even understand their methods properly. They are great at the practical aspect of, fully understand their methods aims, use, operations whatever, but have no clue on the philosophy of it, never read a research book other than that 1 book they read to get through that one research module! And just go with their operational procedures, which may make a great project, but I fear we miss some of the broader science here. Anyway, rant over. I'm not going too deep into this myself yet, until there's debate. :)

While, of course, neither is good for a dogmatic approach, yes, I would think that overall a qualitative approach to humans is better than a quantitative approach. Don't get me wrong in this one, quantitative research has given us wonderful things, medicine, for example, being a prime example of this.

Statistics, while being fantastic for opening our eyes to problems (for example the elderly abuse you mentioned: statistics would allow us to track it to combat the problem of elderly abuse) is fit mostly for confirming or testing something. Want to know how helpful a certain medicine is? Test away (with, of course, human rights taken into consideration)! However, for studying, for example, something immensely complex and subjective such as the mind it only gets us so far. Quantitative research can give us clues for how the brain works, and maybe how to influence the hormones that play an important part in emotion, but how far can it get us in solving a trauma history? While the pharmaceutical industry would, of course, certainly like to think so, drugs really cannot solve everything.

And, of course, as you said, a lack of understanding of methods is troubling as well. The 'why?' and the history is too often missed, and that can lead to some particularily sticky situations, even if we're leaving the ethics aside.

Also, take for example the Milgram Experiment. A clearly quantitative study ('this and that percentage of the participants did this and that'), but how much does this really say? While some may wish to connect it to the Holocaust, I'd personally say that the 'why did this happen?' is missing. How can you compare an experiment and an event from history without researching the why of both?

Overall, I'm mostly saying that quantitative research struggles with psychology beyond the scope of simple brain analysis. But, remember, the best research has both, even if it's just for ethics!

Hello, i was told by Telgani could talk here about the poll, since it is interesting topic.

I assume the poll is result of Russian Federation actions in Ukraine, which is not enough for such drastic actions like kicking the largest nations from SC permanent seat. Especially if it is proposed by the West, which had more incursions and interventions in the last few decades. Also, i must quote my friend from Chile, who said, jokingly, this is yet another white racist stuff, as no one lift a finger when POC go to war, like Tigray War, Myanmar CW, Sudan, CAR, but when Europeans go to war, then every media and company take actions accordingly(like news coverage, donations, accusations and verbal/moral support).

To me, Western response to crisis in Ukraine was emotional and not reasonable. This is not helpful and will not solve the problem as it doesnt offer solution. UN did condemn Russia, but only Western states put embargo on them. It is insane to try isolate the largest nation on earth, especially one with lots of resources.

I was westernized, once, really believed global interventions by the western governments is good, that it maintains global security, like trade routes open and terrorism undeground. But it is hard to deny all the evidence Eastern states have done, especially in the last decade, and compared to Western responses to that, im now leaning more towards Moscow-Beijing-Delhi axis.

About the UNSC, ideally, it is unecessary. UNGA is competent enough to make decisions. Problem is they dont have UN military, to enforce the law, thus making UN organization and by extension SC pointless. UN remains good forum though, where nations can connect and discuss, but that is where it ends, until proper UN military is implemented, which never will, as it goes against Westphalian Sovereignty.

This is why we need Balance of Power, same one that 'delusional and powerhungry' Putin is talking about for 20 years. It is the best alternative to UN military(security). Why wouldnt everyone be for multipolar world?! That would be illogical.

I would contend that the Western World has ignored numerous wars elsewhere in recent times. We have had almost zero coverage on the most vile civil wars, such as the Tigray War (2020-2022) as one of the most under reported wars in recent times. It has been dubbed as the "forgotten conflict". Sadly hundreds of thousands had died, and have been misplaced. Politically, tides remain unstable.

The problem, as mentioned, when war happens closer to home, the reponse differs. Death rates between the Tigray War (widely reported at around 600,000 est upper) relative to the illegal war in Ukraine, reported at around 300,000, however estimates for both conflicts are almost impossible to count, we have a fair issue on which matter most? If human life is valued the same, why is relative weighting in coverage not the same?

I suppose the answer is power, and possible consequences leading from the mad Russian actions. One is a functional power and nation state, where the listed civil wars are already very fragile states with infighting, often as a legacy of colonisation and Western incompetence as an awful legacy. We, naturally, demand legal actions from functional states, which Russia purports to be. Without going to war (pointless action towards the goal of peace), poltical pressure must be applied, and that must include sanctions against immoral, unethical, and illegal state actions against another state. This is reasonable, and balanced, on the whole. I wouldn't fancy going to war otherwise, as WW3 isn't on my wish list.

Quite frankly, the sooner Putin is shot by his disgruntled subordinates, the safer the world we shall inherit. He is unhinged, and a total whack job. The war was, in particular an economic one, and a push towards a port country for Russian economic interests. Putin forgot, along the way, that the world would have to intervene (indirectly), and that the Ukraine people wouldn't stand for their country to act again as satellite nation at the whim of a mad man.

Although I am in favour of the UN, the SC gives me pause. We need closer economic utility acorss the globe. Removal of trade barriers, and further freedoms to move. However, for that to be actually achievable, a stive to remove global poverty is essential, and parity of social and economic rights must be achieved at a minimum standard. Right now, the fringe state of Russia and her polices stand in the way of that as an unfree, undemocratic, basket case under Putin's leadership. She's got to go! Now, sashay away, Putin.

https://youtu.be/QnGKfs3kmgg?feature=shared.

Trout Fishing: First: Ellaington top 2%. Second: Matou top 2%. Third: Democratic republic of east zambia top 3% … Middle: Pacific Northwest Territories bottom 48% … Last: Telgan bottom 1%

In Merquimordes, the tobacco industry has burnt out.

In New saxony, citizens are barcoded to keep track of their movements.

Fan 4rt- recently hosted the least successful trade negotiations since The Phantom Menace.

“If you believed in Christianity or Islam it was called 'faith', but if you believed in astrology or friday the thirteenth it was Superstition!”
― Jostein Gaarder, Sophie’s World

Telgan I am from the so called Third World and we suffer from same things as Russia, and that is why get confused when Western Governments keep criticizing us after we literally copied their system, laws and values. My point is Russia is a capitalist democracy now, not communist anymore, and yet it is not enough apparently. USSR was bad when she had one party state, now Russia is bad when she have 4 major parties and 5-10 smaller. Not a TRUE democracy they say!

Putins popularity stand at 80% for years, and critics question this, majority of Russians support government actions in foreign policy, and critics question this. But when statistics claim low russian living standards, corruption and crime, no one questions that! Why?

Western aligned ICC even dared to issue warrant for Putin, a man sitting on 5000 nuclear warheads! Madness! Western companies are leaving Russia like they are in collusion, isnt that like, cartel behaviour? Isnt western embargo against WTO rules? Then they seized Russian assets, $300 billion, isnt this against the law? Doesnt this discourage world nations to do business with the West, as their assets can be captured and politicized?

MountAye wrote:

Galaad I agree with most of your ideas, but not sure of "im now leaning more towards Moscow-Beijing-Delhi axis." Could you elaborate what it means?

I don't think such an axis exists. If there has to be a trio, the 3rd one is more likely to be Pyongyang rather than Dehli lol. Nor do I think such an axis would do good to the world peace or anything.

Pyongyang is too small and they only want the US out. Delhi is a world leader, with nuclear arsenal, billion humans, large economy and ancient values.

Politically, Delhi and Beijing are adversaries, but that doesnt stops them from entering same organizations and forums. Like BRICS. They are mature old nations that doesnt let feelings especially negative feelings to influence their actions, especially actions that can harm 3 billion humans(their populations combined).

I do believe they are new hope for world peace and stability. Russia and China were enemies 30 years ago, even had wars, now they are allies. Why wouldnt India and China solve their differences? They are also part of SCO. China lifted half a billion humans from poverty, India will do that soon, and Russia became number one supplier of not only oil, gas and rare minerals, but also grain and fertilizer. Imagine if they had risen sooner, would we have western illegal wars in Iraq, Libya. Syria? No, because there would be balance of power! West would not go there because then East would go there as well, as defender(supplier), just like West went into Ukraine after Russia did.

Another major factor at play is that USSR and Maoist China had autarky, they didnt trade alot with the world, while the West dominated world trade. Now Russia is capitalist, and China opened up, they want to trade, and that mean protect their interest.

Problem for the West, especially USA is that they trade mostly weapon systems, so they need unstable regions, while China trade everything, they need stable regions where people can afford basic (chinese) goods.

West is losing in its own game, global trade. They had unlimited access to it, and no opposition. Now they have to compete and it makes them angry. Not only trade but also information, like RT, CGTN, Al Jazeera. People now have alternative sources. And of course, many countries are planning ditching the dollar. All this combined will crush Western influence in the long term. And instead addressing the problem, the West is making mistake after mistake, especially in domestic politics. Their people are protesting almost daily, for things so basic, unimaginable 30 years ago.

I’ve never dove too far into the realm of philosophy mixed with politics With this new embassy, I have been given the opportunity to enlighten myself on the topic with this group of sagacious minds. I appreciate the effort you all put into your seemingly meaningless RMB posts; I could entertain myself for hours by reading through these pages. What I’m trying to say is, thank you.

All the best

Compliance: First: Superior Intelligence top 0.7%. Second: Cognosco top 0.8%. Third: Neo Atlas Paradise top 0.9% … Middle: Pashtunlands top 43% … Last: Anarchocapitalistan bottom 0% (54th from bottom in world)

In Writin, the slowest students feel vaguely targeted by their Mendelian Inheritance coursework.

In PARILAND, overweight people receive reparations cheques from fast-food chains.

In MountAye, there's a lot of mouth-breathers about these days.

“If time is precious, no book that will not improve by repeated readings deserves to be read at all.”
― Thomas Carlyle, Essays On Goethe

could we please expand to Florida? if that's alright

Click to show...

MountAye wrote:

Disagreements:

• Russia is a capitalist democracy now... now Russia is bad when she have 4 major parties and 5-10 smaller: Without Google, can you name those parties or say their difference from Putin's agenda? We must not forget the recent death of Alexei Navalny. That is at best authoritarianism, definitely not democracy. If this is what you mean by "we literally copied their system, laws and values", then you need to buy a better copier. Putins popularity stand at 80% for years. I have a whataboutism: Kim Jung En's popularity is 99% forever, do such numbers mean anything?

• But when statistics claim low russian living standards, corruption and crime, no one questions that! which statistics? I question that :-) And why is low living standard assumed as good as low corruption and crime?

• Russia and China were enemies 30 years ago, even had wars: 2024 - 30 = 1994, so which war was it? The most recent military confrontation between the two should be [珍宝岛事件](Chinese: https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E7%8F%8D%E5%AE%9D%E5%B2%9B%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6)(English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict), which was in 1969, quite accidental, with a casualty of ~100 on each side. However, the war between [China and India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War) in 1962 was ~1000 on each side, and was only among many conflicts over many years.

• Russia became number one supplier of not only oil, gas and rare minerals, but also grain and fertilizer. Minor error: I don't know the others, but the largest rare mineral supplier is China.

• Imagine if they had risen sooner, would we have western illegal wars in Iraq, Libya. Syria? No, because there would be balance of power! How "risen" do they have to be to balance the evil west?

  • Iraq: which war are we talking about? When the Gulf war happened, USSR hadn't collapsed, had the largest army in the world, but still did nothing. And Gulf war was absolutely rightful to save Kuwait from Saddam. As for the 2003 war, that was indeed Bush's recklessness, but most western countries did not support or join.

  • Libya: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Crisis_(2011%E2%80%93present)) started and continues as a civil war, with western intervention lasting a limited period of time. And Russia had and still has large mercenaries in North Africa, have they done anything good to peace, or the opposite?

  • Syria: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war) is also a civil war, but this time Russia is an active both directly and as a puppeteer. China is also having a good relationship with the tyrant Baššār al-ʾAsad. Do these facts make Syrian people better? You tell me.
    

• Problem for the West, especially USA is that they trade mostly weapon systems what's the source for this claim? And we need to notice that countries are just locations where the economical activities happen. For the products exported out of China, many are made by companies owned by the west. They make them in China, because China has okay infrastructure and much worse laws to protect workers' rights and welfare. If you count on such a regime to serve for world's justice, think again.
  

I am going to use numbers to reply since im on the phone and it would take too long to quote each text separately:

1. Yes i can name 3 Russian major parties, 2 US ones and 1 Chinese. I am well informed about their policies and actions in the past 15 years.
United Russia is the biggest party, big tent, supports Putin, it was centrist for 20 years, now tilted right. Liberal Democratic Party is nothing as their name says. they are nationalist-imperialist, and they would start revisionist and irredentist wars if they had a chance. And the Communists, they are actually the strongest, with huge support in the population. The only thing that keeps UR is Putins popularity, when he is gone, the Communists will be majority in Duma, and probably copy Chinese policies. Fun fact, the Communists were pro war since 2014, Putin wasnt. Russian Communists are unapologetic, and i have respect for them, speaking as anti-communist. Credits where credits due.

2. General statistics like UN, US and EU ones, the usual western ones. People always question eastern elections, but never eastern living standards for example. That was my point.

3. I dont understand whats your point? I was still right USSR and PRC had wars, despite using general numbers and not using exact chronology. Its like saying 'WW2 was 50 years ago', that doesnt mean exactly 50 years ago, it means long time ago, half a century. People dont always use exact numbers for historic events, and some of us are older which mean we will use some numbers and names longer than others. Like Kiev or Donbass or other PC talk, we cant instantly switch to 'Kyiv and Donbas' after writing these names the same for decades. It doesnt work like that.

4. You are correct on this one, China is rare earth supplier, i meant some type of essential metals and mistakenly wrote rare earths. Still insane to even try isolate Pluto-sized country.

5. Iraqi War 2003 , neither China nor Russia were strong enough to interfere. Also in Libya, Russia interfered during second civil war. And they got involved in Syria in 2015 because ISIS was running wild and refugees flooded Europe. Russia received formal invitation by a friendly nation to help. It was not invasion.
Name calling people and leaders is pointless and immature. You wont achieve anything by doing that. Same as ive heard other people wishing for Putin to be shot. Dont be like that, be above it.

6. General knowledge really, you can see on wikipedia also. The US export mostly guns and tech, EU supplied world with food and tech, but China replaced them. My personal experience also shows that Chinese products saturated global market, in every country i went, they were using chinese tools, food, and from recently even cars and tech. Western products now rarely leaves the west. This is not an insult but simple observation. For example chinese cars are trying to enter EU but eu is banning them so they can preserve their auto industry since chinese cars are more competitive, while US is banning Chinese tech under false accusations like security reasons. Ludicrous.

I am anti communist, but i cant deny the fact Asia currently is more economically competitive than West. I am right wing, which mean i support conservatism and liberty, and despite CCP being communist, they stopped supressing traditions and culture of China, they are actually promoting it! How can i as right winger be against this. Han patriotism is back, Russian patriotism, American patriotism. Suffocating national identity is immoral.

When West, especially USA was right wing, they had unprecedented wealth and progress. Today their economy is not advanced anymore, but looks more like emerging market, while having third world pockets. The values shifted East, and that made eastern nations more wealthy and free, while negative values shifted Westward, the ones Russia and China had 50 years ago.

Click to show...

Galaad wrote:

I am going to use numbers to reply since im on the phone and it would take too long to quote each text separately:

1. Yes i can name 3 Russian major parties, 2 US ones and 1 Chinese. I am well informed about their policies and actions in the past 15 years.
United Russia is the biggest party, big tent, supports Putin, it was centrist for 20 years, now tilted right. Liberal Democratic Party is nothing as their name says. they are nationalist-imperialist, and they would start revisionist and irredentist wars if they had a chance. And the Communists, they are actually the strongest, with huge support in the population. The only thing that keeps UR is Putins popularity, when he is gone, the Communists will be majority in Duma, and probably copy Chinese policies. Fun fact, the Communists were pro war since 2014, Putin wasnt. Russian Communists are unapologetic, and i have respect for them, speaking as anti-communist. Credits where credits due.

2. General statistics like UN, US and EU ones, the usual western ones. People always question eastern elections, but never eastern living standards for example. That was my point.

3. I dont understand whats your point? I was still right USSR and PRC had wars, despite using general numbers and not using exact chronology. Its like saying 'WW2 was 50 years ago', that doesnt mean exactly 50 years ago, it means long time ago, half a century. People dont always use exact numbers for historic events, and some of us are older which mean we will use some numbers and names longer than others. Like Kiev or Donbass or other PC talk, we cant instantly switch to 'Kyiv and Donbas' after writing these names the same for decades. It doesnt work like that.

4. You are correct on this one, China is rare earth supplier, i meant some type of essential metals and mistakenly wrote rare earths. Still insane to even try isolate Pluto-sized country.

5. Iraqi War 2003 , neither China nor Russia were strong enough to interfere. Also in Libya, Russia interfered during second civil war. And they got involved in Syria in 2015 because ISIS was running wild and refugees flooded Europe. Russia received formal invitation by a friendly nation to help. It was not invasion.
Name calling people and leaders is pointless and immature. You wont achieve anything by doing that. Same as ive heard other people wishing for Putin to be shot. Dont be like that, be above it.

6. General knowledge really, you can see on wikipedia also. The US export mostly guns and tech, EU supplied world with food and tech, but China replaced them. My personal experience also shows that Chinese products saturated global market, in every country i went, they were using chinese tools, food, and from recently even cars and tech. Western products now rarely leaves the west. This is not an insult but simple observation. For example chinese cars are trying to enter EU but eu is banning them so they can preserve their auto industry since chinese cars are more competitive, while US is banning Chinese tech under false accusations like security reasons. Ludicrous.

I am anti communist, but i cant deny the fact Asia currently is more economically competitive than West. I am right wing, which mean i support conservatism and liberty, and despite CCP being communist, they stopped supressing traditions and culture of China, they are actually promoting it! How can i as right winger be against this. Han patriotism is back, Russian patriotism, American patriotism. Suffocating national identity is immoral.

When West, especially USA was right wing, they had unprecedented wealth and progress. Today their economy is not advanced anymore, but looks more like emerging market, while having third world pockets. The values shifted East, and that made eastern nations more wealthy and free, while negative values shifted Westward, the ones Russia and China had 50 years ago.

I still do not see a single web link as a reference. Generally, calling wikipedia is not enough, as least the entry name should be clarified.

1. You introduction to the Russian political parties actually proves the "major" parties are not major (or this contradicts with your claim of Putin's polularity), but only analogs of Putin in some aspects, to an allowed extend. Aleksey Anatolyevich Navalny as a counter argument is totally ignored. He is not alone. There are dozens of dissidents murdered, and much more exiled. https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+assassination+of+dissident

2. Still no reference.

3. My point is the conflict between Russia and China is not enough to be called a war. The rivalry between India and China is orders of magnitude more violent, making the formation of "axis" much harder.

4. No more comments

5. • If you want to stop the US from militarily interfering with international affairs, then even today's China, Russia, and India combined are still not enough, not in a foreseeable future.

   • Calling Assad a tyrant is by no means a name calling. Directly inheriting his father in a republic and tailoring the law for age limit, this the most neutral and Greek definition of tyranny (僭主). And we haven't discussed the evidenced usage of chemical weapons onto civil people. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad] Want to continue?

   • Also worth to mention, defending Russian interference and criticizing western help for Ukraine is suspected of double standard.
     

6. • No source again. Your new claim "The US export mostly guns and tech, EU supplied world with food and tech" is already very different from the original one. And here is a data visualization (https://oec.world/en/profile/country/usa?subnationalFlowSelector=flow1). I don't see weapons as a significant export sector. Once again, save intuition and common sense to yourself, and show others solid data and source.

   • Once again, the location of goods does not tell the whole story. Most iphones sold in the US are actually imported from China, but most profits still go to Apple, an American company.

   • Woohoo I see "Ludicrous". "Dont be like that, be above it." LoL
     

As a Chinese, I am so moved to see someone praising my own nation. (sorry I am lying lol.) Its rise significantly relies on the west and it pretends that's not true. Many of the technologies were obtained by enforcing the western companies to sell, otherwise they'll close the market for the west. This was so against the rules of WTO, now they dare to accuse the west of similar trade barrier for self defense, I have nothing to say.

Now, even the rise is at risk. Xi Jinping the analogue of Putin has spent ten years reforming the government to dictatorship, building military, and threatening Taiwan and even the whole east Asia. The pandemic has crippled the country's economy. We might see Xi making a dangerous gamble before his chips fade away. Hopefully he'll not be praised as a peace balancer for doing that.

Culture: First: Telgan top 0.5%. Second: Superior Intelligence top 0.5%. Third: Kingdom of Cambria top 2% … Middle: Pashtunlands top 33% … Last: Erendoni bottom 1%

In Mushraan, bar brawls are an hourly occurrence.

In Solaennen, students do more community service than homework.

In Maklaburg, kilts and cassocks are viewed with suspicion.

“Usually when people talk about the trickle-down theory, it has to do with economics. The richer people at the top of a society become, supposedly, the more wealth there is to trickle down to the people below. It never really works out that way, of course, because if there are 2 things people at the top can't stand, they have to be leakage and overflow.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus