WA Delegate: The Zionist Republic of Flor-Fina (elected )
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Today's World Census Report
The Most Cultured in Israel
After spending many tedious hours in coffee shops and concert halls, World Census experts have found the following nations to be the most cultured.
As a region, Israel is ranked 5,236th in the world for Most Cultured.
|1.||The Lovely Happy Jewish Republic of Sea Dolphin Lovers||Left-Leaning College State||“Thanks for the fish, man.”|
|2.||The Knootian Protectorate of Ale-Yarok||Civil Rights Lovefest||“Ale Yarok - haderech el hachofesj”|
|3.||The Zionist Republic of Flor-Fina||Inoffensive Centrist Democracy||“Protected By Magen David”|
|4.||The Theocratic Triumvirate of The Harith Tribe||New York Times Democracy||“There Are No Rights Without Duties”|
|5.||The Ambassador of Israel Ambassador||Inoffensive Centrist Democracy||“I'm still a foreign ambassador dangit!”|
|6.||The Rogue Nation of Kykel||Inoffensive Centrist Democracy||“אורים ותמים”|
|7.||The Protectorate of Samyriana||Democratic Socialists||“Unity, Discipline, Work”|
|8.||The Jewish State of Israeli Defense Force||Left-Leaning College State||“The land of Zion and Jerusalem.”|
|9.||The Free Zionist Republic of Mossad Agent H||Inoffensive Centrist Democracy||“In Defense of Israel and its Allies Worldwide”|
|10.||The Republic of Zephyrus IX||Corrupt Dictatorship||“Ezekiel 25:17”|
- : The Republic of Isranil departed this region for The Rejected Realms.
- : The Zionist Republic of Flor-Fina ejected and banned The Republic of Isranil from the region.
- : The Republic of Isranil arrived from Sacrum Romanum Imperium.
- : The Zionist Republic of Flor-Fina rejected Dolla Holla's request for regional embassies.
- : The Holy Catholic Empire of Ilstur of the region Dolla Holla proposed constructing embassies.
- : The People's Republic of Vartaraxwess departed this region for Bus Stop.
- : The People's Republic of Vartaraxwess arrived from The Internationale.
- : The Dictatorship of Fedza departed this region for The Rejected Realms.
- : The Zionist Republic of Flor-Fina ejected and banned The Dictatorship of Fedza from the region.
- : The Dictatorship of Fedza arrived from Federation of Conservative Nations.
Israel Regional Message Board
National unity government - I'll give you that. But without bibi it simply not going to happen. More than 2 million people voted for him (either LIkud or parties that had declared they'd only join Bibi), and far less voted for gantz.
You're clueless. Unfortunately, the media campaign succeeded this time, clearly with you. Absolutely nothing more wrong with Bibi's behavior relatively to previous PMs. The police and state attorneys really crossed the line, making legal constructions never before heard of, anywhere on the planet, just to twist the voters' judgement. Positive coverage of a politician - a bribe? Give me ONE example of such a case anywhere in the western world. If that were the case 90% of politicians in the world would be found guilty, and the remaining 10% are just failed politicians.
Read what Allan Dershowitz, not one of Bibi's fans, wrote on this subject. Read what Ruth Gavison, a clear leftist, wrote on this.
Give me a break... It is an attempted coup by legal means, "plain and simple."
Because of Donald Trump's abandonment of the SDF and enabling of the Turkish invasion, I have never been more ashamed to be an American than I have this week.
I understand your sentiments. While I'm not ashamed to be an American, I'm very angry that President Trump has abandoned the Kurds, and allowed the escape of hundreds of Isis prisoners. This action will come back to haunt the USA and our allies.
Any involvement of the US is a force for good, and should be thanked for, but the region's prosperity or quiet cannot and should not depend solely on the good graces of the US and its troops.
While this decision does complicates things, allowing Suni Turkey to cause havoc in Syria and at the same time strengthening Assad and its Shi'ite allies, and while the seemingly hasty thought-process behind this decision puzzles many in the region, I don't think you or any other American have anything to be ashamed of. Quite the opposite. Seeing what a withdrawl of relatively small American force leads to, you should be proud of the good grace your country and your people and leaders were good enough to show the region until now.
Whether or not this decision is in the best interests of the American people is a different question, to which the answer, I humbly think, is far from obvious.
It is interesting to see the reaction to Trumpís decision from both sides of the aisle. Republicans seem to be condemning it, which I think is principled, because they were similarly against Obamaís abandonment of the Kurds in Iraq.
Democrats, too, are upset with the decision - but they werenít with Obamaís abandonment of the Kurds. They even welcomed it. Which is annoying for at least a handful of reasons.
Iím against Trumpís decision. But then, I have always advocated for greater American presence in the Levant (and the Gulf) to, first and foremost, deter Iran.
But to speak of the Kurds specifically, I am very much puzzled by Trumpís decision. Truthfully, I think it was a very bad one, for a few reasons:
1) I see the Kurds like I see myself - and Jews generally. I want them to have a state. And I think theyíd be a good ally, perhaps another bulwark against Iran.
2) It seems like a real betrayal to these people, who shed their blood before ours, and I want American foreign policy to reflect our values, rather than merely our interests. Our operations in Syria were cheap, too, in lives and in treasure.
3) We didnít get much out of this retreat. Turkey didnít give us anything. If they had, Iíd be somewhat more understanding. At best, theyíre a reluctant ally. At worst, a perpetual nuisance, and an enemy of Israel. If they didnít house our nukes, Iíd be even more dismissive of their interests.
4) Still, Trump is doing exactly what he said he would. This wasnít surprising. In fact, heís doing precisely what the Left has been asking for. Which is why Iím surprised by their reaction. Itís not principled. Itís merely a gut reaction against Trump. And if Obama had done this - and he did! - theyíd be congratulating each other for it.
Late note: The abandonment of Kurdish allies may make the acquisition of future allies more difficult. The Poles have, at least privately, referred to American promises of backup as a ďdangerous delusion,Ē and a false hope.
My worry: Would Israel be wrong for coming to the same conclusion? Would Saudi Arabia pursue nukes, believing our guarantees of security to be fickle? Maybe. America doesnít have a great history of supporting our allies (Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq). There are thousands of men and women, buried in shallow graves across the earth, who were foolish enough to trust us.
I'll surprise you: I think this was the least-bad decision Trump could have taken. A few thoughts:
1) Was he supposed to lead to a war between Turkey and the US? That would have lead to a NATO chaos.
2) Untill when exactly were US heroic soldiers supposed to stay in Syria? After victory over ISIS, and when Syria starts to return to normality, what exactly was their mission? How does victoy look like over there? Is there a point at which you would support a retreat? If you support eternal presence of troops in Syria, well, Trump is against it, and he won the US elections on his promise to stop the endless wars.
3) I think H might have hinted to this, but let me state it clearly: at a time when the radical Shi'ite forces are victorious in Syria's civil war, strengthening radical Suni presence in Syria, such as the Turkish forces (and perhaps the return of Suni refugees into the Turkish-controlled area), is in the best interests of everyone else.
Let me reveal a small Israeli secret: Israel does not have, and probably will never ever have, any better choice than the USA. From a simply egoistic standpoint of self interest, the US really doesn't need to support us so much, exactly because we don't have any other option - which is another reason why we are so indebted to you guys, why Israelis (left and right) so love America, and why it was such a disgrace and ingratitude by Bibi to go to your Congress and attack your president during Obama's era (and one of the main reasons why he doesn't fit as PM). Whatever America does - Israel will never have any better choice for an ally and friend. The job of the Israeli PM with regard to the US president is more or less to say "yes, sir, imediately, sir", maybe beg for something, and then shut up. We are a regional-empire, but with regard to the US, there is no need to delude ourselves: we are mere pets. Even with President Sanders, or (heaven forbid) President Ilhan Omar, America will be our best option, because any other state in the world will re-allign to criticize Israel more... So, frankly, you need not worry about what conclusions Israel draws, ever (as long as the Israeli PM acts rationally).
(Iíd quote your post, SD, but Iím awful with the text format on this site.)
1) I think the threat of war with Turkey is not our problem, but theirs. Turkey would not have gone to war with us over a 20-mile stretch of neutral zone. And if they had - which would have been surprising - it would have been a severe miscalculation on their part. That said, there's a reason they waited until our announcement to leave before they moved in.
2) Agreed that this was Trump's plan. It should come to no one's surprise. It was, in fact, what the American Left has supported since 2001. Our wars in the Middle East, they claim, are mindless, profiteering and savage. And when we leave Afghanistan, as they have been asking, the result will be the exact same: Abandoned allies, full-scale retreat and defeat.
As for the end result, or the exit strategy, I'm not so certain it was worth formulating in the immediate term. Our commitment to Syria was not so expensive, in soldiers (roughly 2,000) or in treasure, and we had YPG doing most of the dirty work. The costs of leaving, on the other hand, are high: Less American hegemony in the region, a veritable genocide facilitated by a supposed NATO ally, and another notch on our belt that reads: "Don't trust us." In other words, it was worth staying, allowing a de-facto Kurdish state - and, at the very least, preventing Turkey from letting loose hundreds of ISIS prisoners.
3) Your point, in the immediate term, is correct. Turkey may be a counterweight against Iran. But I'm not sure they'd be a good one, exactly. As our relationship with Turkey erodes, and as Turkey grows more authoritarian - not to mention their public groaning about our sanctions on Iran, and their inability to abide them - there have been talks with Rouhani and Erdogan about stopping "the fighting and establish[ing] peace." I'm unsure what to think about this, but it makes me wonder: Is this rivalry meant to last long-term? Would it produce a meaningful check on Iran, or merely a nominal one?
4) I'm not worried about Israel leaving our gang of usual suspects, but I am worried about creating, in Obama's words, "daylight" between us and Israel that allows for those smaller matters to slip under the radar, e.g. China buying up Israeli land and resources. You're probably correct that the Kurdish example won't have any measurable effect on Israeli trust of the Pentagon (you'd know better than I would), but, to address your point about Democrats, I would hate to see the more leftwing of them take the reins of foreign policy.
Netanyahu's criticism of Obama, and courting of Senate Republicans, was an awful mistake, principally because 1) He alienated half the country, and 2) Democrats reacted in an very tribal way to criticism of Obama *that is still ongoing*. That tribalism is very much alive, by the way. The Left is incensed about Israel. Many American Jews turned on Israel as quickly as they could - progressive loyalties and social ties always come before anything - because of Netanyahu. You can argue that their (now dead) appreciation of Israel was fickle anyway, because it could so easily be dissolved by partisan loyalties, but the point is that Netanyahu miscalculated for very short-term gains with the Right. We won't have power forever. Or even much longer.
So, how will Democrats govern? How will they work with Israel? With Iran growing more powerful by the day, and the Left's base foaming at the mouth because of a tribal spat between Obama and Netanyahu, I think Democrats are more radical than we anticipate. Less radical administrations have given billions to Iran.
(Thereís always worse than Obama, and Obama was bad, but Ilhan will be a nightmare for our relations with Israel. We can always pivot to Iran again, and if Democrats take power, we will.)
Last note: American lefty jews turned on Israel, not because Israel changed, or *because of Netanyahu,* but because they were looking for a way out of Zionism, and Netanyahu gave them an excuse. In reality, the divide between Israeli Jews and American Jews is religion.